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Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens From: CascadeCamaro posted Fri, May 12 2006, 3:13pm  No one is suggesting that fossils have been collected for every species that ever lived or for every individual of that species. And the rest of your post just illustrates my point. You made "could of" statements, more formally known as "begging the question" in logic. You stated unproven premises to support other unproven premises. Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens From: pathfinder posted Sat, May 13 2006, 2:57am  I had this "debate" a couple of years ago but the thread has disappeared. You want proven, here are some "provens": 1. Bird fossils, even those of the Teratorns, are extremely rare due to the fact that in order for a bird to fly the skeleton is thin and fragile. Therefore, they do not survive the predation/deposition/fossilization process as well as the solid bones of other animals. 2. Argentavis Magnificens skeletal fossils were discovered in 1980, therefore it is a fairly recent discovery. The flood plain of Williamette Valley, near Portland, Oregon, yielded a large bone which was identified as the leg bone of an elk. Later, further examination of the bone determined that the "leg bone" was in reality the upper wing bone of a bird. From the size of the bone, 14 inches, it was determined that the wingspan of the bird was approximately 14 - 16 feet. The same bone unearthed in Argentina for Argentavis Magnificens measured 22 inches How many other fossil bird humerii are mislabeled as leg bones due to their size? 3. Birds migrate. Teratorn fossil fragments have been discovered throughout the desert southwest, namely Arizona, Nevada, and the California deserts. They have been found as far north as Oregon and as far east as Florida. Argentavis Magnificens fossils were found in Argentina's central plain which is flat,and semi-arid. Comparable topography or similar can be traced straight up to the USA. 4. When Argentavis Magnificens supposedly became extinct is not a factor. Why? The rediscovery of many extinct animals, some supposedly extinct for an even longer period of time, happens on a regular basis. Some rediscoveries are small creatures, some larger. Some recent inital discoveries are even larger than Argentavis Magnificens such as the megamouth shark, the basking shark, the ox in VietNam. The list goes on. This bird is one of my favorites and I have studied it for years. I have a plate of BBQ ribs and a Yuengling beer riding on it from Evolver and McCall when it shows up and bites non-believers on the arse. Pathfinder Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens From: curious_george posted Wed, Jul 5 2006, 3:09pm  You guys sound like intellectuals arguing, it just seems so funny.

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