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Subject: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: IBeatSephiroth posted Wed, May 10 2006, 5:32am 
im not sure if this has been posted before, but could argentavis magnificiens be a thunderbird candidate?i mean it's a giant condor ain't it?
i would like comments on my stupid theory
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Found_One posted Wed, May 10 2006, 7:07am 
I was fairly sure that AM was the bird suspected to be the Thunderbird.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Cherokee posted Wed, May 10 2006, 9:02am 
Any bird that big could be a candidate. Jeez it's huge.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Gabriele posted Wed, May 10 2006, 10:15am 
Pretty much, yes. There have been Rockies (my nickname for thunderbirds) reported with wingspans as wide as the Argentavis Magnificiens fossil.

Another theory I have is that the Rockie, Argentavis Magnificiens is PROBABLY still soaring through the skies of our planet, but just shrunk over time, as did most other creatures, such as Haast's Eagle, which I believe is still with us.

But, those are just theories, so I'm not certain.

Believe what you want.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Sordes posted Mon, May 15 2006, 9:59pm 
Argentavis was a teratorn, and those birds were not only bigger versions of modern vultures, they had a very different physiology, a "modern" and shruken Argentavis would still be a teratorn and wouldnīt be undetected.
About Harpagornis: This bird became extinct about 500 years ago, probably later. Thatīs really to less time for such a bird to change body-size and the complete physiology. In fact the Haast-eagle was one of the vertebrates with the fastest size-increase we know, whatīs your evidence that it shrunk in the last hundred years?
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: CascadeCamaro posted Wed, May 10 2006, 11:05am 
Argentavis lived in the Miocene Epoch, about 20 mya, in S. America (notably Argentina, as its genus name implies). No fossil remains are known from other continents or from any later time periods--just as no verified dinosaur remains are known from later than the K-T boundary.
Of course, there will always be juvenile cryptozoologists around who will clamor that A. magnificiens "coulda" survived to today and "coulda" spread beyond S. America.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Found_One posted Fri, May 12 2006, 7:58am 
"Argentavis lived in the Miocene Epoch, about 20 mya, in S. America (notably Argentina, as its genus name implies). No fossil remains are known from other continents or from any later time periods--just as no verified dinosaur remains are known from later than the K-T boundary.
Of course, there will always be juvenile cryptozoologists around who will clamor that A. magnificiens "coulda" survived to today and "coulda" spread beyond S. America. "

I doubt we have fossil records for every (if even a small percentage) species that lived, let alone every single animal. Just because we find no fossils after a certain period doesn't mean animals didn't exist past then. It just means they didnt exist in an area where their remains could fossilize. Agrentavis, could very well have survived, and evolved into a smaller bird, or just survived where we weren't. There could be a corpse of one right now in the middle of the Amazon, and no one would ever know.

This particular part of your statement sort of put me off:

"Of course, there will always be juvenile cryptozoologists around who will clamor that A. magnificiens "coulda" survived to today and "coulda" spread beyond S. America"

Thats a very arrogant statement. It's not clamorring, it's speculation, and theories. The fact is, IT IS POSSIBLE that things spread beyond the area where we found fossils. Especially considering these facts :

1. It takes certain conditions to produce fossils.

2. Birds Fly, other animals swim and walk all over the place (migration).

3. The fossils we find are one animal out of the whole species. How are we to know that/those aren't the ones that strayed off from the usual territory (usual territory being a place that fossils do not form, and remains are eaten, from feathers to bones.

I agree, it's not likely that an animal from 20 million years ago still exists, but it's decendants very well may. Perhaps in a more evolved form.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: CascadeCamaro posted Fri, May 12 2006, 3:13pm 
No one is suggesting that fossils have been collected for every species that ever lived or for every individual of that species.
And the rest of your post just illustrates my point. You made "could of" statements, more formally known as "begging the question" in logic. You stated unproven premises to support other unproven premises.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: pathfinder posted Sat, May 13 2006, 2:57am 
I had this "debate" a couple of years ago but the thread has disappeared. You want proven, here are some "provens":

1. Bird fossils, even those of the Teratorns, are extremely rare due to the fact that in order for a bird to fly the skeleton is thin and fragile. Therefore, they do not survive the predation/deposition/fossilization process as well as the solid bones of other animals.

2. Argentavis Magnificens skeletal fossils were discovered in 1980, therefore it is a fairly recent discovery. The flood plain of Williamette Valley, near Portland, Oregon, yielded a large bone which was identified as the leg bone of an elk. Later, further examination of the bone determined that the "leg bone" was in reality the upper wing bone of a bird. From the size of the bone, 14 inches, it was determined that the wingspan of the bird was approximately 14 - 16 feet. The same bone unearthed in Argentina for Argentavis Magnificens measured 22 inches How many other fossil bird humerii are mislabeled as leg bones due to their size?

3. Birds migrate. Teratorn fossil fragments have been discovered throughout the desert southwest, namely Arizona, Nevada, and the California deserts. They have been found as far north as Oregon and as far east as Florida. Argentavis Magnificens fossils were found in Argentina's central plain which is flat,and semi-arid. Comparable topography or similar can be traced straight up to the USA.

4. When Argentavis Magnificens supposedly became extinct is not a factor. Why? The rediscovery of many extinct animals, some supposedly extinct for an even longer period of time, happens on a regular basis. Some rediscoveries are small creatures, some larger. Some recent inital discoveries are even larger than Argentavis Magnificens such as the megamouth shark, the basking shark, the ox in VietNam. The list goes on.

This bird is one of my favorites and I have studied it for years. I have a plate of BBQ ribs and a Yuengling beer riding on it from Evolver and McCall when it shows up and bites non-believers on the arse.

Pathfinder
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: curious_george posted Wed, Jul 5 2006, 3:09pm 
You guys sound like intellectuals arguing, it just seems so funny.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Ozraptor4 posted Wed, May 10 2006, 11:07pm 
Er, why single out Argentavis (a Miocene, Argentinian teratornithid) as a candidate for a legendary North American bird when there are plenty of Pleistocene (much more recent) North American giant teratornithids to choose from (Aiornis, Cathartornis, Teratornis)?
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Phillip O'Donnell posted Thu, May 11 2006, 7:22am 
Actually your theory isn't stupid!
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Gondwana posted Fri, May 12 2006, 4:32am 
Yeah, it could almost be one of yours, right? Gondwana
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: dominionale posted Fri, May 12 2006, 8:42pm 
Gondwana, please don't give him fuel to post, he's frustrating enough. I've learned to skip his posts so I don't have to take aspirin.
Subject: Re: Argentavis Magnificiens
From: Redwolf posted Sat, May 13 2006, 12:20am 
The Big Bend area of Texas has always been a hotbed for rumors of strange things. The area just south, in Mexico, is truely a lost world. Nobody knows what goes on down there. Anything could be living and occasionally flying into US airspace.


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