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Subject: Re: New website From: FalconStorm posted Sun, Oct 18 2009, 12:25pm  As a fellow believer, Dan, I think you nailed it. The prospect that dinosaurs might be alive is an interesting and nice thought, but it doesn't make a very good evangelism tool. Subject: Re: New website From: Guodzilla posted Sun, Oct 18 2009, 1:18pm  (Mutters, sotto voce: "Oh, brother--here we go again") OKAY . . . Speaking as a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN, FIRM BELIEVER IN GOD >>AND<< IN DARWIN, I want you, Mr. Cloudyboy, to SPECIFICALLY STATE the PAGE, PARAGRAPH and LINE in Darwin's "The Origin of Species" declaring the theory of evolution to be atheistic, and stating that the premise proves that God does not exist. Find ANY STATEMENT, ANYWHERE that SPECIFICALLY quoted either Darwin or Alfreed Russell Wallace as proclaiming evolution as atheistic, or anywhere that they themselves stated they were atheists. (They were NOT atheistic, they were Anglican). Before you do so, however, please be advised that the Darwinian quote that "GOD IS DEAD" was NOT uttered by Darwin, it was penned by Friedrich Nietzsche in his work "The Madman." Finally, GIVEN THE FACT that evolution was accepted by the Christian Church AND BY ASSOCIATION accepted and endorsed by THE VATICAN, what makes YEC's correct, and all other Christians (including the Pope) mistaken, and by their mistaken beliefs, infidels? Ignoring or refusing to reply to this post will amount to acknowledgement of inability to comply as well as confirmation of defective knowledge and that your beliefs are in error. Subject: Re: New website From: cloudyboy87 posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 3:11am  How can one believe in what is well known to be the largest Atheist following in mankind's history and claim to follow God? That doesn't make any sense. Eventually one will find that they are impossible to follow them both. They are exact opposites and can only contradict each other. The whole premise of Darwinism is that There is no such thing as God or the super natural and that everything exists due to "natural forces". Regarding the whole "evolution excepted the Christian church and the Vatican" remark. I don't know which church you are referring to but it certainly does not reflect true Christianity and Christians just because a few of them have compromised their faith to please some people that keep pushing their own, opposite religion on everyone. And I do not agree with anything the Pope or Vatican officials or Catholicism in general says or teaches because it has virtually nothing to do with real Christianity. Catholicism teachings are not based on the Bible but on invented traditions and incorporations from other cultures from when Rome conquered other cultures and absorbed them into its own. Honestly I'm getting tired of arguing with people that have already made up their minds so If anyone posts any more questions I may or may not respond. No promises. Thank you and God bless Aaron Tullock Subject: Re: New website From: Guodzilla posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:46am  In other words, the Vatican, the Pope, and every single other religious authority figure is wrong, and you and you alone are right? Bull$#!t. Basically what you're saying is that you don't believe in anything the Pope or the Vatican says because they don't jibe with your beliefs. That is a circular argument which in the end says and proves nothing, and you know it. You are placing belief in the place of established fact. You are using the intangible to explain the tangible, and in the end explain nothing. Don't you dare go off on this powertrip of condemning Christians who also believe in Darwin, because that is merely a strong example of your own deficient self-regard. You are unsure of your own faith, and so you round on others with the intent to bully them and make you feel better. Well, sir, I will NOT stand for it. You are of the opinion that you and you alone are right, even when the crushing, overwhelming preponderance of FACT, not opinion, maintains that you are wrong. Even other Creationists say you're wrong. Ask Tim LaHaye. The United States happens to be a free country, with a stated set of freedoms, and that includes freedom of belief. In other words, your condemnation of me (either manifestly or implied) as an atheist is completely out of line. By the way, I set some questions out, and you did not answer a single one. All you did was resort to some proselytizing claptrap as a smokescreen. I wanted a direct quote, and of course, you didn't give me one. I also said "Accepted," not "excepted." Quit misquoting me. Subject: Re: New website From: Guodzilla posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:53am  One more thing: If you suggest using the Bible to teach science, that makes about as much f!@#'ing sense as using Shakespeare to teach math. Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 12:41pm  As I said earlier, the Pope and Vatican have nothing to do with Christianity. Subject: Re: New website From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 3:25pm  Of course you're joking, are you not, raditz?. The Catholic one is the only CHRISTIAN Church; the others are heaten infidels...LOL...and some are even Protestants... Well, don't know about Catholics being right or not, but they sure number more than all the other Christian sects put together.. Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:17pm  Catholicism is not a true Christian belief system. While it is not impossible for a Catholic to be a Christian, Catholicism in the most religious aspect is not Christianity. The same can be said of Jahova's Witness and Mormonism. Subject: Re: New website From: luna1580 posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 9:13pm  do we have to do this again? any person on earth who believes that jesus christ was a divine incarnation of the only true and existing god is a christian. that's the meaning of the word "christian". so catholics would be christians on that basis alone, they think christ is divine, and while they believe in a trinitarian god concept, it's just one god. (they do not think mary or the saints are demigods or anything like that, just people who -being closer to god in heaven- can boost prayers god's way. like passing on a request from the public to president since you are on his staff, that may be weird to you, but it's not polytheism). further more, of course catholics are christians, they're one of the modern wings of the very first organized and incorporated christian church ever (the other wings are the eastern and oriental orthodox ones -these include the coptic christians-). all other types of christian churches are younger inventions (and all religions are human inventions, which explains why there are so many different ones). if you've been taught that catholics aren't christians it's probably just because the flavor of christianity you happen to be a part of was itself created in a reactionary movement against the structure of the roman catholic church and/or the political power of the vatican. just because your church doesn't like their church doesn't mean any of you cease to christians unless you either stop believing in the divinity of christ or start adopting polytheistic beliefs (which, to repeat, catholics do not themselves hold). Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 10:11pm  If you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and died on the cross for your sins, and you have accepted him as your saviour, thanking him for his deed - then you are a christian. A Christian does not idolize Mary or Saints, and prays to God. In the strictest sense, a Catholic must confess their sins to a priest in order to get to heaven, and do so often. This is contradictory to what it says in the Bible, and is not part of the true Christian faith. The Catholic Church originated as a way for the Romans to control the flood of Jesus' followers around the time of His crucifixion. Subject: Re: New website From: luna1580 posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 10:24pm  no, you and catholics just have different opinions about exactly what medium jesus wanted y'all to use to acknowledge your sins and errors. here is a rather eloquent essay about it: Why Do Catholics Practice Confession of Sins to a Priest sorry, you're all still christians, you just interpret something differently -and interpreting things in the bible and history of christianity explains why there are 1000s of different christian churches, christians all. you can't prove that any particular interpretation is "more correct" any the others, sorry. study some history of christianity, it's very interesting. Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 10:40pm  All I can tell you man, is that you can believe all religion is the same if you want. Perhaps you should join one so you can have more people to argue with. Subject: Re: New website From: luna1580 posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 10:57pm  now you are sounding silly. i am not a "man". nor do i believe "all religions are the same" -if they were my studies of comparative world religions throughout the ages would have been so very simple! and i don't need to "join one", i was raised in one, researched it deeply, researched all the others i could find deeply, and found that i could not honestly call myself a believer in any of them. BUT i maintain enough respect for those who do believe that i neither ask them to abandon their own faiths, call some of them "less real" than any of the others, nor do i think it's appropriate to feign belief in any one of them and thus dishonor those believers with a lie of false faith. i just ask they respect my right not believe in any god[s] as much as i respect their right to personally believe, and not try to force any religion into the public sphere. you want to pray at any point in your day? awesome, just don't force me to join you.... do you notice that you have offered no rebuttal to anything of substance i've said? admit you are incorrect, there are A LOT of different types of christians, and they all consider themselves just as "real" as you do your own faith. try having a little respect for that and a little knowledge of the history of religion.....then you won't look so foolish. Subject: Re: New website From: luna1580 posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 11:25pm  p.s. -just look at this as a start: List of Christian denominations so, out of curiosity, what particular flavor of christian are you? what possessed you to think your particular sect was the only "real" one? members of all these other versions all think their faith is both christian and real, who are you to say you are correct and all these others are just wrong? sure, i say that i see no empirical evidence of any of you being right in any provable, testable sense, but you can't judge beliefs against beliefs and say "i've got a hold of the "real" religion and you all don't," you just don't have any way to back that up, and faith is a domain beyond proving anyway..... only people who doubt their faith -but are afraid to leave it- find comfort in denigrating the faiths of others and thusly feeling "special" about their own convictions. this happens in gangs, in high school/middle school cliques, in political groups, in subcultures, and -yes- in religious groups, the ol' "rip on the out-groups, the dominant/formerly dominant group, or the marginalized (depending on where your own group falls in the social status hierarchy) to feel better about your group and yourself". -it's psych 101, so why not go study that too? (it compliments the history of religions rather well in fact)..... Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 11:53pm  All hail King Pope! Subject: Re: New website From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Tue, Oct 20 2009, 1:43am  Now you're being honest and showing your true colors, raditz...did you take lessons from Hooty?. Your evasion tactics and denial are very much similar to his... Subject: Re: New website From: luna1580 posted Tue, Oct 20 2009, 2:51am  uhm, if you'd troubled yourself to read either my profile or any bits of my on-site writings you would know i am an atheist, so i don't trouble myself much about the pope. and yet you fail to answer a direct question: exactly what denomination/persuasion/flavor of christian ARE YOU? a simple question. no shame in telling the world the precise faith and path to god you are on right? it's the only "true" path, right? so share it with us all! for the glory of christ. really, how dare you deny us the only true path to god? that would be selfish and a sin.... but WHY do you think "your way" of faith is the "only way"? do you have a background of studying the history of all world religions or even just the (quite complex) history of christianity? really raditz, if you keep failing to answer these simple questions you look like an ignorant fundie idiot who lacks any answers, which i assume you are not. please prove that you are not that by just answering these simple little questions. thank you. Subject: Re: New website From: Guodzilla posted Wed, Oct 21 2009, 6:09pm  Just so'z you knowz: I'm an Episcopalian (Anglican in Britspeak), born and raised Catholic. I have had a number of Atheist friends and acquaintances over the years, and I respect them and their rights enough to not preach or try to convert. Subject: Re: New website From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Tue, Oct 20 2009, 1:41am  raditz, you're "WRONG", about Catholics, and about topics related with Catholics. Some examples of your ignorance are that you think one "must" confess to a priest to go to Heaven ( being honestly sorry is enough) or that we "idolize" the Virgin and the Saints. To worship idols is a SIN...man, my Great-Aunt Angela is one of the latest Catholic Saints, you know, not that I am a believer in the divinity of Christ anymore. So I should know if we "idolize" my Great Aunt or not. Another interesting piece is that you do not need a priest to baptize; any Catholic can do that, even a non Catholic of honest Faith. It would be interesting to find if one can baptize oneself, maybe one can. Well, of course one can, I mean "lawfully". You really should learn a little before pronouncing your ex-catedrae opinions about everything. That's friendly free advice. Eh, eh, my Great Aunt is still uncorrupt, and looks very much like me, and the older I get the more I look just like her...disgustig...good embalming method they used... Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 4:24am  "Hail Mary, full of grace" Subject: Re: New website From: Algernon Mudd posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:51am  "The whole premise of Darwinism is that There is no such thing as God or the super natural and that everything exists due to 'natural forces'." No, it is not. Darwinism states nothing about the existence or nonexistence of God. The two have nothing to do with one another unless you believe that the existence of God somehow precludes genetic change within a species over generations. Subject: Re: New website From: Guodzilla posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:56am  Exactly. Subject: Re: New website From: Andromache posted Tue, Oct 20 2009, 7:06pm  You know what,I am disappointed.I was expecting this Aron Tullock fellow to be original,but he seems to have failed to break the standard mold of an irritating,uneducated troll who is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to avoid the facts,and in all probability has never so much as cracked the cover of Origin Of Species. -'Mache Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:22am  TYPING EVERYTHING IN CAPSLOCK IS HIGHLY ANNOYING AND GIVES ONE THE FORCED PERCEPTION OF LOUD SPUTTERING SPEACH. Strict Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing. That is a common misconception. Evolution is being taught in schools to explain the origin of life on the planet. As the "Theory of Evolution" is almost exclusively taught as fact, and is often associated with Darwin, it is easy to see why it can be such a controversial topic. Apparently Darwinism and Evolution have their own sense of religion - as expressed by your exclamation: A DEVOUT CHRISTIAN, FIRM BELIEVER IN GOD >>AND<< IN DARWIN. Subject: Re: New website From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 3:35pm  OMG, you're serious. Can you explain to me how "strict Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing"?. And how this is relevant?. What do you mean when you claim this?. Subject: Re: New website From: raditz posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 6:12pm  Catholicism is a religion based on Christianity. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to pray to Mary, or ask a priest to talk to God for you in order to clear your sins away. They've added their own books to the Bible and base everything around symbolic acts and dogma. Therefore, attacking a Christian by saying he's contradicting the Pope is a moot point. True Catholicism, like Jahova's Witnesses and Mormons, wear a mask of Christianity, but actually have a completely seperate belief system. Subject: Re: New website From: FalconStorm posted Mon, Oct 19 2009, 8:26pm  You're right, raditz. There's much superfluity in Catholicism. Subject: Re: New website From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Tue, Oct 20 2009, 3:40am  Who is attacking a Christian here?. Man, Catholicism is as Christian as any of the other sects following Christ. Again you're wrong about what Catholics believe about confession and the "cleaning" of sins, and about preaching to the Virgin or the Saints. But clutch to your delusions, man. You just don't know what you're talking about. A "Christian", in the end, is one who follows "Christ's" teachings. Not the Bible's. I say. So if you want to get literal, don't mention te Bible here. The Bible (or rather the Gospels) speak about Christ, but is NOT Christ. Right?. I for one was a Catholic because I was raised one, and while right now I reckon ALL the sects are wrong, one way or the other, I am still a fan of Jesus (or rather, of my idea of Jesus). Not that I believe He was God. No need for that, he was an exceptional human being. Who needs a Bible God when we humans invented it?. And man, the OT is quite a different can of worms than the Gospels. The Good News they're called, and for a reason; a change. That was a nice little rant, yes Siree...from my point of view, a nice mental salad you have mixed, raditz. Almost as twisted as mine own...

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