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Subject: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Andromache posted Fri, Sep 11 2009, 8:54pm  In mythology,Lilith was the mother of the demon race.She aged rather faster than humans,but was essentially immortal,due to the fact that she took human men as her lovers,and then sucked the life force and blood from their bodies.So my question is this:is Lilith a parallel to Ceres in Homer's Oddesy?In The Oddesy,the sage tells Oddeseyous that "you cannot refuse the bed of a goddess",but he also tells him to be cautious,because Ceres plans to work magic on him after she has taken him for a lover,thereby "stealing his soul".She also threatens to turn him and his men into pigs:)So,if Ceres is the equivalent of Lilith,does this mean that she,also was one of the early myths of vampirisem? Just wondering. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: ape man posted Fri, Sep 11 2009, 10:48pm  Nope. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Adder posted Fri, Sep 11 2009, 11:56pm  you would have to prove that lilth ever existed first Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: herdtrackerV2 posted Sat, Sep 12 2009, 8:04am  The common English spellings of these names are... Odyssey - Is the second of two parts of an epic poem attributed to Homer. Odysseus - The main character. Circe - is the minor goddess who turns his men into pigs. Ceres - Roman goddess of agriculture. She is Roman and not Greek. Her Greek counterpart is Demeter. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: EastTxSwamp posted Sat, Sep 12 2009, 11:06am  Also, you need to look back much further than Homer for origins of the 'vampire myth.' I mentioned Gilgamesh in a post some time ago; start there and then work your way up through the ancient texts. It would also be enlightening to check out a timeline of Ancient Greek and Rome- that will give you a better idea how their mythologies are connected. Happy hunting! Swamp Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Andromache posted Sat, Sep 12 2009, 12:08pm  Sorry 'bout the Circe/Ceres confusion.The curse of the typo!!!!!What I mean was that if Lilith is one of the first vampire myths,can the Oddessey simply be retelling it,in a subtle manner?Or am I just fabricating the connections:)? Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: EastTxSwamp posted Sat, Sep 12 2009, 7:33pm  the Odyssey was written down in the eighth century BCE, but I don't know how that date compares with whichever Lillith you're thinking of. Is there a Lillith in Genesis somewhere, like Adam's other wife? I think you'd really enjoy Joseph Campbell's books. Check them out if you're really interested in this topic. That's about it from me on the subject. Swamp Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Yo Mongo posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 11:36am  yeah, what herdtrackerV2 said. On a trivial note, according to Vampire: the Masquerade published by White Wolf Games, Cain, of Cain and Abel fame, was the first vampire. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: RogueReptiles posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 6:29pm  There is a series of books called The Necroscope by Brian Lumley. In some of the he tells that the first vampire was Shaitan (Satan). He became a vampire by breathing in fungi spores. If you're into reading, I highly recommend this series. They are great. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: MizLinda posted Sat, Sep 12 2009, 10:56pm  Wasn't it Circe that turned the crew into pigs? Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Loreweaver posted Sun, Sep 13 2009, 5:25pm  just curious what mythology you're getting your information on 'lilith' from. as far as the motif of women draining the lifeforce from men, its a fairly common story. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Karl posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 7:43am  More like a never ending story. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Loreweaver posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 9:19pm  to point, i think i've been in that story. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: /PJ posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 8:41am  Vampires, soul eaters and canibalistic peoples and Gods go back a long LONG way. While doing a bit of research I found out that one of the first "soul eaters" and not a vampire (just takes children's souls, not the blood) was from early Egyptian wall paintings from about 5000 years ago or so. For the life of me I can't remember the name, but the charm against it was GARLIC and ONION!! It stunk, so the bad things (demons) stayed away. Then of course there's Saturn, who ate all his kids so he wouldn't be overthrown, but "forgot" Zeus. Needless to say, Zeus overthrew his father. There's tons of myths out there. Happy reading. Saturn devouring Coronus by Goya Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Cherokee posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 10:09am  Sooo, she succeded in turning men into pigs. I kid, I kid. Only my ex-husband and a few others fit this catagory. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Vila posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 6:10pm  I love that painting. Marina Warner makes a very strong point in her book Monsters of our own making that it's not Saturn's son he's devouring, it's his daughter. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Stu posted Mon, Sep 14 2009, 2:20pm  Do you read Anne Rice? Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: /PJ posted Tue, Sep 15 2009, 12:30am  Me? Not lately. That's NOT where I got the Egyptian myth from tho. I looked up 'when was garlic first used against vampires' because there was a thread a while back about a supposed vampire burried with a brick in it's mouth, and my brain ran with the theme. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Loreweaver posted Tue, Sep 15 2009, 6:40am  isn't she a born again christian now? or did i hear she finally went back to writing good books? Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Rangoon posted Tue, Sep 15 2009, 9:51am  she took human men as her lovers,and then sucked the life force and blood from their bodies. Oh sweet Jesus I think I married her! goon- escaped just in the nick of...oh wait now she just drains me financially. Subject: Re: So was Lilith the original vampire? From: Algernon Mudd posted Tue, Sep 15 2009, 10:00am  Lilith is a mutation of a Mesopotamian myth of a whole race of demons (lilitu). I don't see any parallel between Lilith and Kirke. Kirke was simply another obstacle to Odysseus and his crew getting home. She didn't steal souls, life or blood; she just tried to hold them up. While there is a lot of overlap between undead and demons, the term vampire comes specifically from Slavic folklore, where it is an unsaved human soul possessing a dead body, not the same as a demon. Subject: Vampires as a cultural universal From: Rangoon posted Thu, Sep 17 2009, 5:55am  International Vampire Mythology This is one article of many that supports the idea of vampires being in all cultures. Obviously, other than needy people that suck the positive energies from those good people that they can get to care about them,ther are no real vampires. But it's another interesting belief that people seem to love. Subject: Re: Vampires as a cultural universal From: Algernon Mudd posted Thu, Sep 17 2009, 6:52am  I do not think it is correct to say that vampires are found in all cultures. Monsters and demons that are, or inhabit, human corpses, or have a fixation on blood, can be turned into an artificial category of "vampires" just like giant legendary reptiles can be made into a category of "dragons." But this is only to say that they share similar attributes, not that they are the same (they can't be the same, technically speaking, because as you say, none of them are real). Now if they had a common source myth a long time ago, that would be different... but I doubt that could ever be proven. Kali is not a vampire! She is an incarnation of the goddess Durga.

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