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Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: scmarlowe posted Thu, Jul 12 2007, 7:16am  Interesting, looks like there's some contradiction between source material. Thanks for the citation. I'll look into this farther. However, much has changed since 1909 and there have been recent fossil finds (albeit non-primate) eminating from recent drilling on the Gulf Shelf. It may not impact the primate issue in so far as Dryopithecus and descendents are concerned (if they weren't here), but some current thinking is that the celestial event of 13,000 years ago greatly impacted the Clovis people and was responsible for the mega-fauna extinctions at that time in North America. Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: Stu posted Thu, Jul 12 2007, 8:17pm  "some current thinking is that the celestial event of 13,000 years ago greatly impacted the Clovis people and was responsible for the mega-fauna extinctions at that time in North America" Can you cite that 'current thinking', Scott? I'd be interested to see it. Thanks. Stu (sorry to butt in but immensely enjoying the craic here) Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: scmarlowe posted Thu, Jul 12 2007, 9:32pm  I'm not aware of any books on the subject yet, but try these: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/NSD-mammoth-extinction.htm l http://www.livescience.com/animals/070521_comet_climate.html http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/530208/ http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070523094009.htm Thesearticles from credible sources are but a few on the subject. I became interested in these phenomena after talking with Dr. Petuch at length about the one he details in his book "Centozoic Seas". As you know, mammoth extinctions were previously thought to be the result of human over-killing the animals. However, we discovered the partial fossil remains of a mammoth in Bradenton, Florida that was pulverized (I have the fossils in boxes here in my office and in our storage unit). The body could have been washed to the then coastline and damaged by wave action, but it may also have been reduced to pieces by more catastrophic after-effects of a celestial event. The jury is still out on that one (the fossils date to around 13,000 years ago -- it's a Columbian mammoth). Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: scmarlowe posted Thu, Jul 12 2007, 9:38pm  And, I guess I better mention, for the nit-pickers benefit, the mammoth remains were found in a "bone yard" containing many other fossil specimens -- including teeth from an oreodont. Up until this oreodont find, the nearest fossil find of this animal to the area was about 250 miles farther to the north -- suggesting either a greater range than previously thought (but additional teeth/remains have not yet been discovered in the area) or being carried here by some unknown mechanism (a tsunami?). Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: mysticete posted Thu, Jul 12 2007, 11:07pm  A 13000 year old oredont would be almost as exciting as Miocene North American Ape. Sure you don't have a reworking issue (Oreodont died out some time in the Pliocene). I think Bruce MacFadden at U of Florida has described some Florida Oreodonts. Certainly, given how abundant they were, they would have pretty much occuppied all of North America Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: scmarlowe posted Fri, Jul 13 2007, 3:32am  While I'm certain about the designation, I still have some doubts about the dating. Russell McCarty at the U of F is who I went to about the find. He apparently used MacFadden's work to establish the range of the oreodont in North Florida -- suggesting that the find in Bradenton was much farther south than "previously known". I still believe that more evidence of the animal needs to be found to bs sure about dating and the possibility of disturbed fossil bed remains being carried here by some other mechanism than death of the animal at the place of find. So far, Bison, Cave Bear, Peccary, Mammoth, Manatee, Shark, Oreodont, Giant Beaver, and other remains have surfaced in this bone yard. The problem now is that the owner has closed off the property to further excavation in preparation to develop the land. Subject: Re: Biscardi footage and comparisons with fossil apes From: Arctodus posted Fri, Aug 31 2007, 4:01am  Huh?!? An end pleistocene oreodont?!? I agree that it is certainly possible that fossil hominids in north america may be underrepresented.We know that red pandas occupied north america during the middle pleistocene.The evidence, a single tooth out of Tennessee.A fossil dhole jaw has been recovered from a mexican bonebed 40,000 years old.

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