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Subject: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 4:25am 
I'm quite serious about investigating the Nittaewo legend further. A long time ago - about ten years in fact, i came across some extraordinary drawings of a clan of Nittaewos in full attack - led by an older individual.

This was on a visit to Sri Lanka and for the life of me I can't remember where I saw it, but it was the first time I ever came across the word, so it stuck. Strangely in that depiction, they were upright, although slightly hunched, and had more pronounced baboon-like features.... anyway I'll find it again one day.

But in the meantime, if anyone knows of any other sources about these creatures, I'd be interested to find out more. There was some dubious account of a guy who went out there in the mid '80s and supposedly saw a Nittaewo briefly in the area... anyway I'm looking for more credible stuff!

There is quite a bit on the Net, mostly plagiarized from Heuvelmans' "On the track of Unknown Animals". Wonder if any of you cryptzoologists out there have other sources?

Many thanks
Charith
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Cisco posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 5:25am 
> This will thankfully remain out of the tabloids

Well ... it hasn't appeared on the cover of World News yet.

One question - was the area you marked on the map affected by that tsunami?
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: busterggi posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 5:49am 
There's a good amount of material in Sanderson's 'Abominable Snowmen - Legend Come to Life'. Even though it's 40 years old its still pretty good as a resource.

Considering the Flores 'hobbits' I think nittaewos were (are?) very likely real animals (hominids?).
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 5:52am 
Tales of little hairy men are very ancient and from many places, including Greenland. One cropped up in Brazilian UFO lore some years back.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Cherokee posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 10:09am 
I was going to ask the same tsunami question as Cisco. And it seems as if the creatures were highly intelligent, except for using their nails to disembowel instead of a weapon or tool.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 11:08am 
Its this recurring account of little hairy men throughout the world that is intriguing - culd there have been a global population that has gradually receded as humans spread out and basically out-competed and destroyed their habitat?

I didn't realize there were similar stories in Greenland, 4040. Thats interesting - I had previously been thinking along the lines of an animal more suited to tropical/sub-tropical zones.

Of course we come back to the lack of at least fossil evidence - which is why its difficult to add any weight to the theory at the moment. Then again, extreme tropical conditions are said to make fossil formation rather difficult and rare - but thats not my area, so could be wrong...
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Fri, Jul 7 2006, 1:52am 
I always wondered how little hairy pygmies got to Greenland, which is like an isalnd.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Sat, Jul 8 2006, 1:02am 
And it'd be very cold too - gotta have a lot of hair to survive those temperatures..
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Sun, Jul 9 2006, 12:47am 
The arctic hairy pygmies are sure to have white hair to blend in with the snow. That is probably the reason few people see them.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: dorje posted Sun, Jul 9 2006, 11:20pm 
The other question to ask is who tells the stories? The eskimo or the Danes? Let us not forget that neither population has been in Greenland for long. The Eskimo were ariving there about the same time as the first scandinavian settlers arived from Iceland (the icelanders died off) while the danes arived much later. Either of these groups could have kept telling stories of little hairy men that they brought from somewhere else, just as icelanders brought their tales of elves with them from Norway.

Dorje
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Mon, Jul 10 2006, 10:21am 
Sure dorje, myth is very portable. I just know that in Iceland they have what amounts to an elf inspector, and when they build something new he has to okay that it don't disturb an elves place. Actually they call them something else, but he has made roads go around places, etc.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Kimberly posted Mon, Jul 17 2006, 11:40pm 
Dont forget Mexico. Near to some ruins in Mexico there are realy realy little ruins, that only a small child could crawl in.
A night watchman (to keep the tomb raiders and vandles at bay) was pelted by tiny rocks that were shot at him with enough force to hurt!
The people who still live in the area talk of the "little people" who still live in the jungle...

Makes you wonder...

Kim
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 11:00am 
Great! Thanks for the reference Busterggi - will try and get hold of that over the weekend.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Thu, Jul 6 2006, 12:07pm 
Good point about the tsunami.

From little I know, the area in question is rather hilly terrain, so may have escaped from the worst of the tsunami's effects.

But will follow up and find out more.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Crowfriend posted Fri, Jul 7 2006, 8:06am 
Them small hairy pygmies are pretty darn interesting, but what about them tall pygmies? Don't forget them tall ones, okay? Some of them are pretty hairy too!
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Sat, Jul 8 2006, 11:44pm 
True crowfriend true - but there'll always be plenty of people interested in the tall ones! Seems to me that the small ones could still stay easily hidden for years to come - especially in thick rainforest around Asia.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Sat, Jul 15 2006, 10:06am 
I used to know a girl who was pretty close to the small ones you are talking about, and I have seen pictures of BIG hairy pygments maybe 7 ft tall. (or three metrics as we say in Elbonia)
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Sat, Jul 8 2006, 2:53am 
I had another theory about the Nittaewo - based on my experiences with Sloth Bears while filming over in Sri Lanka.

Sloth Bears like to stand upright, and when doing so, they are around 4 to 5ft tall. They also have 4 inch curved claws that are non-retractable. (One individual stood up on its hindlegs and spat into our jeep, which was actually quite an experience)

Mind you I have kind of let go of that theory after speaking with the Veddhas, especially after the chief said, "Do you think that the Veddha who have lived in these forests for thousands of years, cannot tell the difference between a bear standing up and a Nittaewo??? Veddha meet bears in the forest every day!"

At which point I said something like, "Yes chief. You're right chief. Sorry chief. And by the way thats a fine axe you're holding." (I think the translator caught the jist of it).
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Sat, Jul 8 2006, 2:57am 
Still - I thought I had a point:
(Not anymore, no sir)
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Sat, Jul 8 2006, 3:20am 
"Chief carries an Axe. I like Chief."

Cheif carries an Axe and has no visible scars. I love Chief like brother.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Mon, Jul 10 2006, 9:01pm 
LOL - you should see his brother... well you will if you watch the documentary at the end of this year!
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: U.T. Raptor posted Sun, Jul 9 2006, 1:11am 
Isn't putting "small" and "pygmies" in the same sentence a bit redundant?
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Sun, Jul 9 2006, 1:38am 
Yes - I realized that soon after I posted it. Apologies
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Redwolf posted Sun, Jul 9 2006, 12:24pm 
Years ago Dr. Arthur Clarke, the scientist/science fiction writer did a series for TV. He lived in Sri Lanka at the time. He talked about these creatures and apparently believed them to be real. He said they were rounded up and driven intto a cave. Brush was piled up at the cave's entrance and set on fire. All those in the cave died. Clarke said it should be possible to find the cave and since it happened less than 200 years ago, the bodies.

The hobbits of Flores Island are a link here as is the Orang Pendek. Perhaps these small Homo erectus types lived throughout Southeast Asia until very recently.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Sun, Jul 9 2006, 1:17pm 
Exactly my reasoning Redwolf - have elaborated on that in my blog entry as well. Arthur C. Clarke is still in Sri Lanka (my aunt lives opposite him!)

Chances are that even the story is true, its highly improbable that tne entire population was taken down in the cave - unless of course they were the last stragglers after the Veddha had eliminated most of them.

Was that show "Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World" by the way? Used to love that show as a little kid - unfortunately forget most of it now!
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Schlike22 posted Mon, Jul 10 2006, 2:58am 
Great blogs neofelis. Thanks for the info. Interesting indeed.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Mon, Jul 10 2006, 10:28am 
I once knew a scientist type who wanted to go look around a site in South America where he thought a bunch of tiny people had once lived. He had photos of tunnels, etc. but they looked sort of like drainage pipes to me. He had reasons why they weren't, but I don't think he ever wrote anything up about it.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Mon, Jul 10 2006, 8:47pm 
Thanks Schlike22,

As some of you might have guessed, I'd really like to do a full-blown investigation about the pygmy hominid phenomenon in South and South East Asia - linking the Flores find, to the Nittaewo legend, to the speculation about Orang Pendek.

I'm not a scientist (anymore) but I would like to make a film about this, and have a prominent anthropologist "follow the trail" as it were - a kind of detective story if you like.

But of course such a tale could not be told without the added input of some great cryptozoological minds!!! So I shall be calling around asking mysterious questions when I get round to pitching this as a full-blown documentary.

I'm going to carry on with my own research - starting with the Nittaewo. Am waiting for the "Hobbit" excitement to die down, cos the scientists are still knocking heads about it.

Yes I know I had said early that this was going to "thankfully stay out of the tabloids" - and I intend to keep it that way. An intelligently made, investigative documentary invariably goes over the heads of the tabloids anyway!

And to be honest this has been a personal interest of mine for years, and there's still that childlike excitement at the possibility of it coming to life on screen. I have a good team of animators and a good pool of scientists who I work with in the region, so I would ensure that some realistic, science-based renditions of said pygmies will be walking across your screens in a year or two..

I've already made my mind up about the potential of this story, but what do you reckon - would you watch this show? And if so, what possible factors would compel you to tune in?

By the way, thanks for everyone's input so far - its been greatly appreciated.

Cheers
C.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: 4040 posted Tue, Jul 11 2006, 8:28am 
Charith, un-hyped truth doesn't sell. People want to exercise their emotions, especially the basic ones. They want drama, action, sex, escapism, curiousity,etc. .A few people want to learn, but most want to experience the emotions, with learning way down the list. They don't want to see crocodiles laying around in the sun like they do 95% of the time. They want to see them get something --- or try to get Steve.
We were once 11 years old. Think of that age bracket and you won't go wrong. You cannot underestimate the intelligence of the average person.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Tue, Jul 11 2006, 3:37pm 
Don't I just know it 4040 - you're absolutely right - drama and action is the name of the game even in documentaries these days - and a bit of sensationalism too.

Drama and action I can handle - a man running around jumping on unsuspecting animals I cannot. You'd be suprised how many serious wild-life filmmakers I've met who can't stand that treatment. But of course Steve is apparently a great guy, when the audience finally tires of this kind of show, it'll be time for something else -

Meanwhile I'll be organizing re-enactments and reconstructions, and perhaps a few fight scenes... but no love scenes, sorry!
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Gondwana posted Tue, Jul 11 2006, 6:19pm 
"I've already made my mind up about the potential of this story, but what do you reckon - would you watch this show? And if so, what possible factors would compel you to tune in?"

First, Charith: great blog and fascinating topic!
I'd definitely watch such a show, especially because of all the possible connections between Nittaewo, "hobbits", and Orang Pendek. What would compel me to tune in would be the accounts of native peoples, combined with solid scientific analysis, which would also include the discussion of alternative theories as to what the Nittaewo were: NOT bears, but perhaps a Negrito tribe as there are still some on the Andaman islands and I believe also Sulawesi. The Negrito are very small (average height under 1,50m), very dark skinned people, and I came across a website that discussed this possibility. But then, the behaviour of the Nittaewo as described would definitely not match that of a modern human tribe, such as the Negritos.
Oh and by the way, I too remember seeing that pic you're after but I am absolutely at a loss about where and when it was.
One more thing: there are also accounts about small hairy hominids in Africa, i.e. the hotbed of Australopithecine evolution. Check out books by Christian Le Noel (in French) about this. They are called the Ebu-Gogo I believe.
Keep up the good work!
Gondwana
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Gondwana posted Tue, Jul 11 2006, 6:23pm 
I just checked and the Ebu-Gogo is what small hairy pygmies were called on ..Flores. I'll find out the name of the African version. Gondwana
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Thu, Jul 13 2006, 9:41pm 
Thanks Gondwana
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Datu Puti posted Tue, Jul 18 2006, 10:14pm 
i've had the opportunity to visit villages in the mountains where the tribes are mixed descendents of negrito(aeta, as we call them) and manobo. I've never really heard of aetas being hairy, although their hair is very curly, and their skin is noticeably darker than others in the Philippines. although i don't know if all aeta groups, especially those in the andaman islands and otherwise isolated areas, have bladed weapons, i'm pretty sure they have all had bows and/or blow guns since antiquity. i haven't gotten to read anything other than this thread regarding the nittaewo, but they don't sound like negritos to me. not much else i can lend to this discussion, i'm afraid, as it seems the only 'little people' legends i have heard from the Philippines are about 'diwende', or dwarves.

-dan
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Charith posted Wed, Jul 19 2006, 11:06am 
Thanks a lot Dan,

Yes, some people have also put forward the Negritos as another candidate for the Nittaewo.

Although as you say, there are hardly any similarities in appearance and the Nittaewo's behaviour seems extremely unique!
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Datu Puti posted Thu, Jul 27 2006, 10:32pm 
well, society and spirit worship, including animal sacrifices, are part of the negritos' history - and i have seen temples dedicated to such worship still in use as well. people groups can vary widely and while it is hard to imagine a tribe not using ranged weapons for hunting if they had them, it may be possible they either migrated before those technological advances, or were followers of some kind of cult-like group or society that chose to use other weapons. there are several cult-like societies in the visayas and mindanao that have developed thair own writing characters and sometimes adopted unique weaponry, so i guess a group of isolated negritos who used only claws fashioned from bone would not be any more farfetched than a living hominid. i guess we can all hope you or someone like you who actually has the opportunity can find some physical evidence. until then speculating is pretty much what we do around here, right?

-dan
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: hugh posted Sun, Sep 10 2006, 9:18pm 
Hi Charith,
Thought you might like to know that I have made an independent film about an anthropologist looking for Orang Pendek in Sumatra. The documentary comes at the story from the angle you have been talking about. There are too many sightings for this thing not to exist but what it is and what it means to people is entirely up for up for grabs. You might like the film. Have a look at www.orangpendek.co.uk .
Cheers,
hugh.
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: U.T. Raptor posted Mon, Jul 10 2006, 11:27pm 
Was that show "Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World" by the way? Used to love that show as a little kid - unfortunately forget most of it now!

Probably was. I don't remember that bit specifically, but I do remember several crypto-based episodes...
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: Blue Cow Spawned posted Sun, Jul 16 2006, 8:18pm 
there called proto-pygmies
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: (profile name not found) posted Wed, Jul 26 2006, 4:33am 
This pygmy thing isn't something I'm very familiar with, so I don't think I can contribute much to this discussion, but I just wanted to wish you luck with your various projects and to say that I'm impressed with your stuff.

McCall
Subject: Re: small hairy pygmies
From: barbara88 posted Wed, Aug 23 2006, 8:55am 
I just found this website. Fascinating. I'm researching mammal evolution, up through humans...Time Asia says the Rampasasa pygmies were much hairier in the recent past. Colin Turnbull writes that some Ituri pygmies have thick pelts on arms, legs and torsos...I'm seeking data now on Andaman Islanders and others...Does anybody know anybody who is connecting the dots genetically? I'm particularly curious about clues to the time line of our ancestors' loss of furriness. Good luck with your projects. Barbara


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