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Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Ursustyrannis posted Thu, Oct 8 2009, 5:35pm  Interesting! Talk to Darren Naish or the folks at Big Cats. They'll tell you that lynx scat is fairly common around that area. Lynx and puma seem to have survived and thrived after 1972 mass release. It seems that both species have established themselves in Britain. Prey is after all super abundant. IIRC, two or three lynx have been shot or captured over the years with no explanation of where they come from and two pumas have been recovered as road-kill. All were intact I believe, with claws. I don't know if necropsies were performed or not to determine stomach contents. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Stu posted Thu, Oct 8 2009, 6:45pm  Yes, lynx have been shot & killed, or run over, on several occasions in the last few decades. The best-known case may be the 'Fintona Lynx' but a lynx was also shot in the '90s in Norfolk after killing 15 sheep in a fortnight (confirmed by police), a Eurasian lynx captured in London in 2001 (no escapes (obviously, maybe) had been reported) & a man in Kent scratched by one in 2001. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: john80c posted Fri, Oct 9 2009, 4:52am  There used to be Lynx in Peel Park zoo on Isle of Man- they are amazing animals and should be protected in the wild as they eat rodents and therefor fulfil a useful purpose. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Stu posted Fri, Oct 9 2009, 7:39am  John, there are still Eurasian lynx being kept at Curragh's wildlife park on Man. My g/f's cousin lives in Douglas & has taken his kids there, & they've both told me their favourite animals are the lynx, the 'speccy owls' & the otters. Ursus makes a good point above about Naish's blog on UK cats. In fact it's from a speech to the UK Big Cat Conference. It's well worth a read: Britain's lost lynxes and wildcats : Tetrapod Zoology There are three possibilities regarding the theory of relict lynx surviving & being spotted in the UK. They're all misIDs, they're escaped & breeding animals or they've clung on. I don't hold with the third, but the first two seem, given the evidence on offer, to be not as unlikely as to be ruled out. If you know what I mean. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: McHaggis posted Fri, Oct 9 2009, 9:42am  Er, just a couple of points. Scat IS NOT common in that area. In fact although scat exists, it is not common in ANY area of the UK...........and I'd love to know how you are able to tell the difference between lynx and puma scat. There was NO MASS RELEASE in 1972. You may be confused with the Dangerous Wild Animals Act that was passed in 1976. HOWEVER, evidence of a mass release is a complete myth. There are anecdotal evidence of a few releases, but that is it. In fact sightings did not even increase in the years just before and just after 1976. Yes some lynx have been found. two alive, (both appeared to have been captive held at some time before recapture), one road kill and one shot. NO PUMAS have been found as road kill, to my knowledge. In fact the only Puma found was Felicity who was captured, and spent the rest of her life in a wild life park in Scotland. She was believed to be one of two pumas released a few months earlier. In saying all that, there is evidence that the lynx never went extinct in the Scottish Highlands, and hung on in small pockets. There are many professional ecologists, that are discussing the possibility of re-wilding parts of the UK, (with bear, wolves, lynx, beaver etc), who believe that there is no need to bring in the lynx because they are already there. I know research has been done on the possible problems of re-wilding and the effects it may have on the small but real population of lynx in the Highlands. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Stu posted Fri, Oct 9 2009, 9:53am  There are many professional ecologists, that are discussing the possibility of re-wilding parts of the UK, (with bear, wolves, lynx, beaver etc), who believe that there is no need to bring in the lynx because they are already there..... Which ecologists believe that lynx are already there? I'd not heard that. Are they talking about relict northern Eurasian lynx, or breeding populations from escaped animals? Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: McHaggis posted Fri, Oct 9 2009, 4:44pm  The Biodiversity and Landscape History Research Institute held an "Invasive and Problem Species Conference" in Sheffield in September 2009. A good friend of mine Rick Minter, a professional ecologist was one of the speakers (Rick is the editor of ECOS, the quarterly journal of the British Association of Nature Conservationists). Anway, he mentioned that the ecologists who turned up to his session were more interested in the cats already here. They felt there was no need to reintroduce lynx. I got the impression that there were a variety of views on the origins of these lynx. I do know that Rick is of a similar mind to me, and neither of us rule out the relic population theory. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Lachie posted Wed, Oct 14 2009, 7:39pm  MacHaggis I just read this thread today. Coming as I do from the Stirling-Perthshire area and the reports I've seen over the years round this general area I like your line "and neither of us rule out the relic population theory." Not ruling out given the evidence is good. But - Is there any evidence apart from eyewitness? Cheers. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: McHaggis posted Thu, Oct 15 2009, 9:41am  We have is a lot of verbal evidence. But interestingly, a lot of it comes from "off the record" reports from farmers and gamekeepers. Also, if you look at the reports of lynx sightings all over the UK over the last few decades. The vast majority of them have come from the highland region of Scotland. Unfortunately our group Big Cats In Britain only has three Scottish reps, and no-one who can get out into the field in the regions that are hign in lynx sightings. We have trigger cameras available to be put out in locations, but we need a safe area to locate them, and we can't afford to lose any more to theft. Now if you have got any suggestions.................... Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: luna1580 posted Sat, Oct 10 2009, 2:15am  "and I'd love to know how you are able to tell the difference between lynx and puma scat." -is it not true that we can only do that w/DNA lab work? yes, weird OOP big cats in britain appear to be fact.......... Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Stu posted Sat, Oct 10 2009, 1:01pm  -is it not true that we can only do that w/DNA lab work? Tests can be done on Ph & bile acid levels in scat. Mitochondrial DNA can be extracted & sequenced to determine speciation through PCR analysis. If the cat were a particularly OOP animal, with no such others close by, it mightn't have to get to that stage after physical analysis of the stuff by eye for dietary clues & so on. I'd imagine DNA sequencing may be needed to tell apart lynx & wildcat. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: Ursustyrannis posted Sat, Oct 10 2009, 4:09am  Sorry HcHaggis, I was under the impression that Pumas had been recovered as road-kill. I knew that Lynx were becoming accepted in the "Underground", from my readings of Darren Naish, I had the impression that New World Pumas were also becoming "accepted" with Leopards a distinct (low-breeding) fourth. The rabbit head cats and the mastiff cat are fascinating, but possibly localized mutants. I apologize for misinformation, apparently 1976 and 1984 were the primary "Ban against exotics" enacted. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: McHaggis posted Sat, Oct 10 2009, 1:00pm  Don't worry. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Usually peddled by lazy journo's and lazy big cat "researchers". There is even a high profile UK big cat "researcher" who claims in his talks that the cats in the UK are descendants of the big cats the Romans brought over in the first century. In spite of the fact that there is NOT ONE piece of evidence. No archaeology, no writings, nothing. But if you stick to the info that the Big Cats In Britain and people like Darren Naish put out, then you'll get closer to the truth. Regarding the mastiff cat, I was there when Jonathon Mcgowan showed his road kill pic, (I've also seen the second one that he has rarely shown). He still gets ribbed for not collecting the carcass when he found it. Although how was he to know that it would disappear only a few hours later when he returned. Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: scotcats posted Fri, Jan 15 2010, 8:24pm  A dead puma was found five years after Felicitys capture several miles from Cannich. Supposedly the body of a puma was found in a quarry in Lancs but I cannot get any more info on this; anyone heard of it? Subject: Re: Three spot lynx on the loose in West Fife From: McHaggis posted Sat, Jan 16 2010, 4:25pm  Mark , I'll start a new thread mate. No-one will spot the question this far down the forum

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