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Subject: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: Goldstein posted Thu, Sep 1 2005, 2:49pm 
And also about Smilodons and pumas as well...

http://abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_1433588.htm


Thisnews - basically, that the NA "cheetah" wasn't a cheetah at all, but more closely related to the puma than to any other cat - raises interesting thoughts about North American cryptid cats such as the Onza - which is described as similar to a puma but with the body proportions of a cheetah...

It also calls quite seriously into question the proposal to "reintroduce" cheetahs into the US to hunt the Pronghorns - as they would be a completely genetically different animal to the NA "cheetahs"...

Thoughts?
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: Ret posted Thu, Sep 1 2005, 4:45pm 
Since the proposers of reintroduceing megafauna to north america were also talking about introducing elephants on the basis that they would fill a similar ecological niche to mastodon I doubt they would care about the exact relationship between Miracinonyx and the modern cheetah- they would fill the same niche and so the introduction would be ok..........
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: Onza posted Thu, Sep 1 2005, 4:52pm 
They talked about this in one of the other forums, I think it was either "Extinct" or "Prehistoric Life." It also said that sabertooth cats were in a completely different subfamily of cats and were not ancestral to modern felines.

Though I am obviously a fan of the Onza, I do not believe that the specimens that were shot were miracinonyx or otherwise a new species. DNA showed it to be a mountain lion. Though, they may have been exhibiting a fallback gene. But since virtually any large, unusual cat in Mexico tended to be called an Onza (just as other creyptid labels tend to get hastily slapped onto any various things) I have to wonder whether or not the Onza specimens that were shot were really the same thing that the early Spaniards described.

As far as people thinking that introducing African cheetahs into North America is a good idea... I think part of this is a confusion of the name. Miracynonyx was called the "Plesitocene cheetah," and since it has cheetah in the name, people don't seem to realize it was a different species. (All animals are the same!)

If people want to breed cheetahs and release them into the wild, that's great. They should reestablish healthy breeding populations in their NATURAL habitat.
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: Gilgamesh posted Sun, Sep 4 2005, 2:42am 
> Though I am obviously a fan of the Onza, I do not believe that the specimens
> that were shot were miracinonyx or otherwise a new species. DNA showed it to
> be a mountain lion. Though, they may have been exhibiting a fallback gene.
> But since virtually any large, unusual cat in Mexico tended to be called an
> Onza (just as other creyptid labels tend to get hastily slapped onto any
> various things) I have to wonder whether or not the Onza specimens that were
> shot were really the same thing that the early Spaniards described.

Very good point actually. Onza is the Spanish name too, I might add. The Aztecs knew the creature as the Cuitlamiztli. Considering that the Aztecs lived around central Mexico, and the animal was shot somewhere up in the Sierra Madres (IIRC), it could very well have been a different animal. OR maybe not. The Cuitlamiztli probably DID have a larger range than the Aztec Empire, and most of the fauna in central Mexico is the same in the northwest.

*shrugs*

I do think that the term Onza is likely applied to many large unknown cats in the Hispanic world, just as the term Chupacabras has been used to describe animals from Mexico to Argentina that have nothing to do with the Puerto Rican myth.

> If people want to breed cheetahs and release them into the wild, that's
> great. They should reestablish healthy breeding populations in their NATURAL
> habitat.

Aye, though at this point I'm not sure it would be a huge problem to introduce cheetahs or anything else. We've already got just about every annoying introduced species known to man here, from goldfish to thistle to roaches. Besides, land and resources are being gobbled up pretty quickly in Africa. The cheetahs range in Arabia and Iran has already largely been overwhelmed by human development. ANd I fear the same has happened in India.

It would be nice to see cheetahs reintroduced to Africa, the Middle East and India, but I'm also afraid people will wind up killing them off in some areas as soon as they come back.
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: jellyroll posted Fri, Sep 2 2005, 1:27am 
I believe that Onzas are well established, and they don't represent the cheetah morphology. Cheetah are specifically adapted for moderate bursts at very high speeds to chase fleet antelope type critters on an open plain. Onzas tho of slighter build than pumas, are still mountain dwelling and puma like in their morphology.

The role African cheetahs are meant to fullfill is as a predator to the pronghorn antelopes on the american plains. The genetic make up has nothing to do with it, it's the nich they filled. If there was a cheetah like, endangered marsupial in Australia that could fill the roll, they mught be considered as instead.

I want a pet cheetah.
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: clawfish posted Fri, Sep 2 2005, 10:14am 
I hope your desire for a pet cheetah is theoretical and not a plan. They don't make a good pet and at some point it would get too hard to handle and end up in a small cage or a big cat rescue facility.
From one who worked with a leash trained cheetah.
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: Gilgamesh posted Sun, Sep 4 2005, 2:45am 
> They don't make a good pet and at some point it would get too hard to handle
> and end up in a small cage or a big cat rescue facility.
> From one who worked with a leash trained cheetah.

True, though Indian, Afghani and Iranian nobles used to use trained semi-domestic cheetahs for hunting. Right up through the 19th century, and even into the early 20th. The Egyptians, Romans and Arabs may have too, in the more distant past. I suspect part of their success, though, had to do with allowing the cheetahs to hunt, and having large space to allow them exercise.

Caracals were (and still are) used for the same purpose.
Subject: Re: Interesting news about NA 'cheetahs'
From: jellyroll posted Mon, Sep 5 2005, 5:17pm 
Yeah, what he said. If Genghis Kahn can have a couple thousand cheetahs, I can have one. Nyah!


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