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Subject: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Southlander posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 11:25am  Let me preface this by stating I am, as far as I am anything at all, a christian. More specifically I am a Baptist. Even more specifically I am a southern Baptist. That said, I am so tired of people generalizing when something happens and castigating, fearing and hating an entire race, religion, creed, color, or what have you. Yes, what happened at Ft Hood is a terrible tragedy. Yes the individual responsible happened to be muslim. Let me emphasize that, The INDIVIDUAL responsible was a muslim. Even on a tragic scale as was found on 9-11, it is an isolated phenomenom. There are millions of muslims in the world. I imagine 99.99% of them want exactly what everyone else does, a decent life for themselves and their children. It amazes me when things like this happen, if the perpetrator is anything other than a white christian, then a really big deal is made of that fact. I find it totally reprehensible that everyday, law abiding, decent individuals who happen to be muslim have to live in fear of kneejerk reprisals by ignorant bigoted intolorance. A tragedy has occurred. The fact of the major is muslim is merely a tangential fact. Nobody made a big deal several years ago when the Ft Bragg PT field shooting took place. As I recall the shooter in that instance was just a run of the mill white guy of no reported particular religious affiliation. Much is made of the country being divided into red and blue states. I think the division is artificial and driven by the news networks as a quick and easy sound bite. I think the hysteria attendent with these sorts of incidents is much the same. It makes for a quick easy and dynamic attention grabbing soundbite and so it is seized upon and beaten into the ground. Ok my rant is over, I will get off the soapbox but for heaven's sake people, we are supposed to be a lot better than this. Nobody in America should fear retaliation from their neighbors for no reason and especially not because of a reason like the fact they practice a different faith. It is frankly disgusting. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: /PJ posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 12:21pm  I agree totally (even tho I am not a fellow countryman). I also urge you to re-post this in Politics. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: lowredx posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 12:26pm  Good post. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: BillB posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 12:42pm  A tragedy has occurred. The fact of the major is muslim is merely a tangential fact. Nobody made a big deal several years ago when the Ft Bragg PT field shooting took place. As I recall the shooter in that instance was just a run of the mill white guy of no reported particular religious affiliation. Yes, that would be William Kreutzer, Jr. His mental instability was basis of his sentence, not his religion. In fact, I don't think his religious beliefs ever became an issue. And then there was Army Pfc. Steven D. Green, murdered four Iraqis, including a 14 year old girl that he and others gang-raped. His US jury trial ended up with him being sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Interestingly, the Iraqis never raised the specter of the acts being the result of "Christian extremism" or even "Crusader extremism". Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 1:24pm  I find it totally reprehensible that everyday, law abiding, decent individuals who happen to be muslim have to live in fear of kneejerk reprisals by ignorant bigoted intolorance. What reprisals are you referring to? You can be ashamed of your country because of the non-existent reprisals, but I think I'll stay proud of my country for the non-existent reprisals. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 2:19pm  Your reprisals, KK. I know that you can't see them as such, but they are there. Reread your posts at the Politics Forum. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 2:53pm  It's not a "reprisal" to point out that Islamic extremists are dangerous lunatics. And pointing out that truth, is no slur on moderate Muslims. Is deriding white supremacists, an attack on white people? I think not. Is deriding NAZI's, an attack on Germans? I think not. Americans are tolerant people. There will be no attacks on mosques or anti-Muslim demonstrators marching in the streets of our cities, no burned buildings, no Muslims hanged in effigy, no nuthin'... It won't happen, and we should be proud of that fact. Instead, we see this miserable politically correct posturing where we pretend Muslims are running in fear in the streets and we bemoan our awful racist society for its hatred and intolerance. Mea culpa, mea culpa... It's entirely predictable, but I refuse to play along. I'm proud of our tolerance and common sense. I'm proud that none of these things are happening and I refuse to pretend they are happening just because it's politically correct. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Southlander posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 2:59pm  But keith those things do happen. Sometimes not widespread thank god, and often not really reported. But they do happen. Now the fact is they also happen to synagogues and even churches, but the point is that such things shouldn't happen. I happen to agree with you that radical islamists are extremely dangerous. But it is also the case that the radical islamists taken as a fraction of the whole of Islam are such a small statistic that the fact they happen to be Muslim almost isn't relevant to a certain extent. Take out the islam from the equations, these people are radical terrorists. Period. They might be christian, they might be muslim, they might be jewish or even buddhist or no religion at all. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 3:58pm  My apologies to RMM for posting this link again - the same thing happens in many places and it's not a reflection on the Spanish people as a whole. This link is just especially appropriate - no doubt we could find similar episodes in France, Italy, Germany, whatever. But not in the US... Look here: BBC News | EUROPE | Spain struggles with race riots A Spanish woman is killed by a Muslim and thousands take to the streets burning, looting, attacking Muslims, etc. Yet, this doesn't happen in the US! We should be proud of this but instead, we'll hear of some Muslim verbally insulted in a store someplace and CNN will run non-stop coverage castigating the nation as racist for weeks. Americans are good and tolerant people despite all the PC blather to the contrary. We're not rushing into Muslim neighborhoods burning and throwing rocks after such an incident. This is a good thing. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Southlander posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 4:17pm  Yes you are right and that is indeed a good thing. Thats because again taken as a percentage of the whole Americans like most other people are good people. Just like it is the radical extremeists that cause issues it is the radical extremeists that perpetuate the bad stuff. And that group is the group I am speaking out against. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 4:47pm  That group in the US is obviously (see link) much smaller than in other 1st world countries. We should be proud of that. I am... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Vila posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 6:15am  "It's not a "reprisal" to point out that Islamic extremists are dangerous lunatics" So are christian extremists, jewish extremists and so on. Religion has very little to do with lunacy, man. It's only an excuse. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: BillB posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 11:42am  Religion has very little to do with lunacy, man. It's only an excuse. Very well said. Lunatics hide behind the banner of religion in order to try to give themselves some sort of legitimacy. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Southlander posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 2:54pm  I am referring to vandalized mosques, threatening phone calls made to muslim families, bullying at school a whole host of acts taken by the people of this country. I am talking about the muslim population as a whole having to be fearful that because a man who happened to be a muslim did something awful they are now possibly targets of various levels of violence and threats of violence. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 3:06pm  Uh yeah... You know, after 9/11 and thousands of American deaths we heard the same baloney - Muslims living in fear of their lives, blah, blah, blah... And yeah, there were a couple of isolated incidents, but mostly people just went on with their lives. There were no anti-Muslim demonstrations, no riots, not burned mosques - nothing. In Anchorage, a Muslim owned furniture store was reportedly vandalized and most of the goods destroyed. The community put together a fund and raised something like 50K to help him out. And get this, it later turned out the store owner had vandalized his own shop for the insurance money! I see the America where the community raises money to help out. You see the one where the shop is vandalized - even though it didn't happen. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 2:22am  Attacks on Muslims and their facilities, after terrorist acts of 9/11. We had similar in the UK, & it's happened all over. The desperate few acts of bigots & the frightened disenfranchised. Ignoring it only makes it stronger. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 2:17pm  Excellent post, & a refreshingly honest viewpoint. Thanks. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 2:19pm  Hear, hear !. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 3:15pm  Look: BBC News | EUROPE | Spain struggles with race riots Thousands of people in Spain burning cars and barricading the streets and attacking Muslims. I don't mean to point the finger at all Spaniards because surely these nutbars only represent a small percentage of the people. But note - this hasn't happened and will not happen in the US no matter how many Ft. Hoods and 9/11's occur. I think Americans should be proud of their tolerance. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Southlander posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 4:22pm  Oh and By the way Keith, thanks actually for pointing out or at least reinforcing something I was somewhat neglecting to acknowledge. The fact is that MOST American's are as you say. So my diatribe was in its own way as kneejerk as the very actions I am decrying. My point is still valid overall, but you are also correct to point out that the overall scale isn't as bad as it could be. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 4:55pm  HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW !!!! How easy are you to manipulate, KK !!. Do you really believe all you read in the press, if it supports your point of view?. I know that you have searched, and noneteless all you've found about us vile Spaniards is a wildly exagerated incedent at a small village, were incidentally most inmigrants are concentrated, nine years ago?. Try and do better, man. Honestly, and after a few years of adaptation, I must say we're managing to coexist with inmigrants quite well, but that's not the point. That we mere Fifth-World Spaniards are so (if we were) doesn't make it right for US citicens. It is a bad thing for anybody, but anyway there's a difference. Every time I, or anybody, critics US actions at, say, Iraq, you mention how BAAAD Saddam was. That a terrorist kills undiscriminately makes right for the US to do so?. I guess not. But again, that is NOT the point. The point is that jump inmediatly to generalizations, as you do, is wrong. You're inmediatly ready to cast a web over all the Muslims, or whoever your bias of the moment targets, extrapolating from the actions of a few. " this hasn't happened and will not happen in the US no matter how many Ft. Hoods and 9/11's occur. " KK, please do not tempt me to cite any of the inumerable examples... You can think what it pleases you, but I can do so, too, and I must correct you and say that "most Americans should be proud of their tolerance". Sadly, some can't. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 6:55pm  KK, please do not tempt me to cite any of the inumerable examples... I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to cite examples of groups of Americans in anti-Muslim riots, burning cars, attacking immigrants, etc. It didn't happen here after 911, it's not happening after this latest incident and it won't happen in the future. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: PeteLeo posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 11:50pm  Dang, got kind of quiet around here, didn't it? You have to remember that this is the guy who claims he's afraid to come to the U.S. because his "American wife" told him our cops intentionally seek out visiting Spanish folk and perform all manner of unmentionable assaults upon them. I guess all of us savage Americans possess some sort of special mutant X-ray-Spanish-locating-super-vision or something. Pete "Once Beaten Up In London Bar" Leo. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:32am  Hey Pete, slow down !. Maybe you shouldn't show your ugly mutt on London bars, eh, eh, eh.. People get beaten here on bars everyday, btw. And I will NOT get teased unto an exchange of insults. Sorry. We humans are all a sad lot, no need for labels, or as we say here "People make stew everywere". BTW, Pete, the last part you invented totally out of the blue. It is colourful but untrue, that is, even better than reality...congrats. Maybe you should have a go as fiction writer?. May everybody have a good day, and enjoy life. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: PeteLeo posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 1:50pm  "Invented"? So now you're claiming you didn't write earlier of your fear of traveling to America because American authorities "target" Spanish nationals for various forms of abuse and robbery? Hmmm, seems the Great Amnesia Fog has finally reached the extreme western shores of EuroLand. PeteLeo. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:22pm  Correction: I did write about my fear of visiting the States, of late. That's true. I'm afeared. Your ellaborations aren't. I am ready to admit that you can misremember, misinterpret, or I can have explained meself badly, wathever. What is sure is that you haven't correctly understood what I wanted to convey, mebbe my fault, mebbe yours, meebe nobody's but the forum idols. Go in peace, hermano !. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: PeteLeo posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:53pm  Therefore I'm "misremembering" your "poor little me the foreigner" stance? You certainly did place yourself squarely in the spotlight as being especially vulnerable due to your national background. Me, I'm still looking for anybody hereabouts who is spoiling for a fight with the first "Spanish guy" he can sniff out. Going to be a long search, I fear. PeteLeo. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 3:37pm  Pete friend, you're a good person at heart, and I love you for that. Unfortunately I can'd understand what you mean by : Me, I'm still looking for anybody hereabouts who is spoiling for a fight with the first "Spanish guy" he can sniff out Could you explain that for Spanish dumboos ???????? May you have a nice day; I'm going nigthy-night as of now. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: PeteLeo posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 12:46am  A sardonic jab at your previously posted "fear" of visiting the U.S. due to some wholly imaginary hatred of Spaniards by the locals. I have yet to hear a single American ranting and racing about attacking the first Spanish visitor he (or she) encounters. Believe me, there are plenty of countries scattered about the globe that are significantly more dangerous as vacation sites than the U.S. Don't know how to make that any clearer. PeteLeo. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 7:42am  Aaaaahh...thanks. Well, if you find anybody, reprimand him for me, vale?. You wouldn't want to visit some quarters of Seville...I'm not going to Morocco, either. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 1:06pm  Is that a cricket...? Well, not long ago I had a couple of American liberals telling me how Muslims would be hung and shot down in the streets in the south (or something like that). I had to remind them that hundreds of thousands of Muslims live, work, go to mosque, run businesses, etc, in the south - by choice. In the minds of liberals, everywhere in the US (outside of their own line of sight) is dominated by night-riders wearing sheets and lynching blacks, gays, Muslims, hispanics, etc. Apparently, the re-mastered DVD release of To Kill a Mockingbird has been mistaken for a documentary, set in 2009... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 2:18am  I've always wanted to visit & stay a while in the USA. I'm not thick enough to believe it peopled by ignorant hatemongers & racists. Like everywhere else, the UK & Western Europe included, it has more than its fair share of diehard homeground fanatics who believe everything they read in the press about immigration & terrorism, stirred up by ultra right-wing extremist 'politicians' voted in on the back of fear & social deprivation. Some has to be blamed. 'Twas always thus. Attacks on Muslims and their facilities, after terrorist acts of 9/11. And before you jump, yes, I could post several links to such incidents occurring in the UK after the London bombings. It gives me no sense of pride whatsoever, but it is the 'real world' & to ignore such fearmonger-whipped reactions is to ignore the domino effect right down to the household of events on the bigger world scale. That's not 'PC' or 'liberal' - that's reality. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 9:52am  Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. The attack on the Sikh man is well documented, but most of the others are just isolated threats and insults - note the more serious incidents of fire bombings, group attacks, etc, happened in Canada and Australia rather than the US. It's well to remind people not to blame the broader Muslim population for terrorist incidents and when cases do arise, the media should spotlight them and point them out for what they are. My problem is with the attitude of "we are a brutal racist society, blah, blah, blah..." when in fact, we are not. The proof that we are not a brutal racist society is this - there are no anti-Muslim demonstrations occurring in our streets. There are no bombings. There are no burning mosques. Muslims are not being stoned by gangs of cowards in the streets. I will hazard a guess that somewhere among the 300 million people in our population, a Muslim will be insulted or threatened or some anti-Muslim graffiti will turn up, but let's keep it in perspective. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 10:12am  I thought I WAS keeping it in perspective. But to ignore isolated hate incidents & refer them to as 'non-existent' only serves to acceleratet the chances of them re-occurring & spreading. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 10:32am  We are talking about our society as a whole. Yes, there are isolated nutcases who will throw insults or paint some graffiti on a mosque. Perhaps some idiot (like in the case of the murdered Sikh man) will even escalate to violence. These incidents are few and far between. Some of these incidents (as in the Anchorage case I noted) were even perpetrated by the "victims" for publicity or money. I resent somebody pointing out idiots consisting of .001% of the populace as being representative of American society. It isn't true. If it was, we'd see mobs in the streets. There are no mobs and there will be no mobs. We haven't even seen a single isolated case of abuse, though no doubt our media is awaiting one with bated breath so they can jump on it and talk about our racist society... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 10:54am  I resent somebody pointing out idiots consisting of .001% of the populace as being representative of American society. It isn't true. Who was that then? Racism festers if left unchecked, so don't dismiss a few 'isolated' incidents (& I showed you there were, indeed, quite a few) as being 'nutters'. The disenfranchised & disillusioned of any country is quick to jump to a common cause if it feels its last inalienable right - 'invasion' of its country putting their very nationhood under threat - is under serious threat, as informed by hysterical, unreasoning media or politicos. Racism is generally the calling card. It becomes a bulk delivery if left unchallenged, as history has shown us time & time again. To dismiss it is both unwise & imprudent in the current global political climate. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 1:38pm  Look at the title and opening post. Now, Southlander was gracious enough to admit he was overstating the case in "knee-jerk" (his words) fashion. But the sentiment is widespread. What we are seeing here is often called "liberal guilt" but that's not really inclusive enough, it should be called "western guilt", because we're taught that all the ills of the world are the fault of the west. This is just one element of that - the assumption that some horrible widespread backlash will be inflicted on Muslims because of this incident. And it's baloney - 99.9% of American Muslims will see no negative incidents whatsoever. They're far more likely to have a non-Muslim reach out in sympathy and reassurance than they are to have a dead pig tossed in their petunias. But let's ignore the kindness and tolerance of Americans and pretend we're racist thugs, because that's the PC thing to do. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 1:57pm  I'm not really familiar with "western guilt" & don't subscribe to the notion. The only guilt we should be feeling right now is showing continued faith in governments intent on repeating the mistakes of the past & too stubborn & not brave enough to try to change the ponderous treadmill of history. At least Obama has made some tentative steps to this end; he should be judged at the end of his term, after his admin have had more time to clean up the almighty Americocentric mess left by its bellicose predecessors. If you want to think all of those who disagree with your politics see retaliatory attacks round every corner, go right ahead. In the real world, we know the distinct possibilities which the current global situation may throw up, & history's littered with ethnic minorities persecuted due to their host nation's political whims & peccadilloes. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Tue, Nov 10 2009, 2:03pm  The world is the way it is not because of western democracies, but because of authoritarian dictatorships ruling the messed up parts of the planet. Obama appeasement policies are going to have no more effect than Bush hard line policies. It's a bit of a racist or cultural prejudice to think that what some guy in DC or London says, has any effect on the actions of some Sheik or military dictator in the Middle East or Africa. Those despots have a vested interest on keeping their people whipped up with religious and anti-western propaganda. I'm not sure if it's amusing or just sad that this propaganda is picked up and believed by people in the west, but it undoubtedly is. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Tue, Nov 10 2009, 8:49pm  I'm not sure if it's amusing or just sad that this propaganda is picked up and believed by people in the west, but it undoubtedly is. Why do you think we're still in Iraq & Afghanistan? Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Wed, Nov 11 2009, 1:03pm  I don't know why we're still in Iraq. We're still in Afghanistan because the people who declared war on us are still functioning. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Thu, Nov 12 2009, 4:47am  Not in Afghanistan they're not. Link me to proof otherwise. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Stu posted Fri, Nov 13 2009, 4:40am  Is that chirping I hear? Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:33am  Only one little small very inignificant that nobdy knows and is easyly forgotten IRAQ WAR?. Bah. Forget it. I've said nothing... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 12:56pm  So, you got nothing? As I thought... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 1:38pm  How's your Puerto seguro doing?. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:11pm  You know, on Friday I saw a pile of enormous pumpkins on after-halloween sale for 50 cents each and I was tempted to buy a few for a Puerto Seguro comparison massacre against my other swords. My wife talked me out it since she hates pumpkin guts on the lawn. I now have three Puerto Seguro's, which is two more than a reasonable person needs. This last one is smaller and nickel plated, so perhaps it's a dress version in case an officer wanted to stab a socialist at the annual Franco birthday bash. The other two have pre-1923 markings from the Turno era. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:26pm  I know that dress version. It is...for dressing. You know, maybe next Sunday I'll go to the flea market and look for one...I've always loved swords. Never practised fencing, though. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 3:11pm  Look for one with the markings below - this is the earliest version made prior to 1923, of very fine steel. In between the Turno and Franco era, the swords has a mark similar to the one below, but with only swords, no lances. Those are good weapons also. There is a later Franco era sword marked with an elaborate red cross (San Juan?) that is not as well made as the earlier ones. The price seems to be the same for the best older swords and the later not-so-good Franco era swords. I think these later swords were just ceremonial and so the steel is not as good. All of the real military issue swords will be marked with the logo of the Artilleria Nacional. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 3:43pm  The one I remember (my older sister's husband's, he was an artilleryman) was definitely a dress sword, and had that logo, or one very similar. But the general aspect was rather sloppy, glittery chrome if you want. Oh well, at the riverside flea market one finds the most amazing items, should be at least interesting. Long time I don't visit. Leave your vallet home and keep an eye open !. I usually put my money inside my socks... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 4:01pm  The dress word I have is not marked with the Artilleria Nacional logo, so it may be that all those dress swords were private purchases from doubtful makers. The Artilleria Nacional swords are fine work. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 4:15pm  One may think that having the tools already as Artilleria Nacional had, there would be little difference between making a bad copy or the real thing... There are a few weapons I've "met" in my life that I'd love to have, one is my pa's Browning pistol, a "first edition" Winchester my pa had, and that Puerto Seguro. Pa had an extensive weapon collection when we lived at the palace. Guess most all was sold when I was still a kid. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 4:36pm  The lack of a Puerto Seguro is easily remedied. The Winchester also, though it may take some licensing paperwork, or whatever they require in Spain nowadays. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 12:54am  It is awfully complicated. But I guess a Winchester should be expensive...one can get ornamental pieces easy enough, but I'd want a "live" one. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 1:49pm  Man, I got that kite, and I just decided I'm gone go anf fly it... Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Vila posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 6:12am  "Otis" at the Bell Witch cave went so far as to suggest a resurrection of Manzanar. I asked him if he knew what he was suggesting, that I've been to Manzanar and seen it for myself. He said some things ... I was about to pull out my trusty rusted fishhook but a soldier on leave from Ft. Campbell spoke up and we tag teamed this hick. Don't the cowboy hat fool ya, folks. I find such ignorance to be sickening. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 12:11pm  I was going to pointout the treatement of Japanese citizens during WWII as an example of a similar generalization...even while many japanese vere serving loyally to their USA flag...I bet KK has some justification for that, too. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: KodiakKeith posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 1:52pm  I was going to pointout the treatement of Japanese citizens during WWII as an example of a similar generalization. That was 65 years ago, and it wasn't the crazy hate-filled racist people of the US - it was the government under esteemed liberal icon, FDR. Day three since the Ft. Hood shootings and (oddly), no riots, no burned mosques, no lynchings of Muslims... Of course it's Sunday, so perhaps after the Christian mullahs get the faithful whipped up with fire and brimstone they'll all dash out and burn a few mosques - after stopping at Denny's for the traditional post-mass waffles. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:23pm  Keep on, KK, get it all out. Have a nice day too. You is what you is. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: church posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 8:59am  Also, can;t forget this one. Batman and Robin:The Bat credit card Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Ella posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 2:55pm  Absolutely right. Bigotry still rules our society. Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: Entity posted Tue, Nov 10 2009, 9:20am  I read "Somewhat fed up with my Yellow countrymen" And I didn't understand all the stars you got until I re-read it :P Silly mistake, eh? Subject: Re: Somewhat fed up with my fellow countrymen From: MY2KPNY posted Tue, Nov 10 2009, 3:33pm  Excellent post.

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