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Subject: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: AustraliaMegalania posted Sat, Oct 31 2009, 5:22am 
link

UNITED in what appears to be deep and profound grief, more than a dozen chimpanzees stand in silence as the body of one of their own is wheeled past.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Odagled posted Sat, Oct 31 2009, 12:45pm 
Amazing. I always thought elephants where the only animals that grieved for a lost one.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Journasaurous posted Sat, Oct 31 2009, 1:36pm 
I think we totally underestimate animals. My cat dreams.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: luna1580 posted Sun, Nov 1 2009, 3:02am 
AM, check it out: you started a thread -about something you agree is worthy of note- (unlike your opinion on clemente's doggies), and we noticed! see, the site isn't all badness and futility.......

lol ;) keep posting. it's way better than just complaining!
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Z.Z. posted Sun, Nov 1 2009, 9:07am 
It constantly amazes me how people are amazed by emotion displayed in other species.

All mammals experience emotion, so do birds.

Love, caring, grief, sadness, happiness, anger and compassion are all displayed by creatures humans consider lesser than themselves.

The blatent disregard shown by most humans toward other creatures is appalling.
Humans abuse and instill fear into other creatures while "training" them, and humans torture and kill other creatures for "fun".

Humans are far from humane.
The severe lack of maturity of compassion in the human species makes it no surprise that humans are surprised by emotion displayed in other species.

Someday, perhaps, humans may grow up.

But Im not holding my breath.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Gerry Bacon posted Sun, Nov 1 2009, 10:34am 
ZZ, I need you to shoot me an email. I seem to have lost yours. Please.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: badger man posted Sun, Nov 1 2009, 9:43am 
Every new discovery makes us rethink what being human is.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Of Legend Born posted Sun, Nov 1 2009, 2:38pm 
I hate to be the guy steppin' on folks' "Awwwww the poor chimps" time, and whereas I do agree animals grieve, I don't see where this photo necessarily shows it. It shows enclosed animals gathered at a fence watching something going on on the other side, which is something that happens prob everyday with millions of animals around the world.

There could have been anything in the foreground of this photo, the fact it just happened to be their dead playmate was an opportunity for a forced photo/story. I would suspect that these chimps quite often gather just like this and watch the various goings-on of the humans when they're working in and around their gate(s). Was it 'grieving their dead' all those times too? Nope. Don't fall for forced perspective, of any kind.

Just saying.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: badger man posted Sun, Nov 1 2009, 6:33pm 
That's what I thought when I saw the picture but the article said they were wrapping their arms around each other. It seems to me they're grieving. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just curious as to what was going on outside their cage.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Of Legend Born posted Mon, Nov 2 2009, 10:19am 
but the article said they were wrapping their arms around each other.


Yet in the photo we might see one arm around another. A lotta chimps all gathered in one spot, seems to be a given one or two would touch each other, even put their arms around each other, even if it's just to make room. Still doesn't mean they were 'holding each other and grieving' and all that. Showing them as a group of grieving, crying apes though makes for a compelling story in this enviro-crazed world we live in.
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Ursustyrannis posted Tue, Nov 3 2009, 3:48am 
The problem with that position is, evidence of emotional attachments are abundant throughout the vertebrate (and to a small extent, invertebrate) spectrum; evidence of strictly mechanical responses is sorely lacking, unless humans are also just organic mechanical beings. However, humans have yet to clearly demonstrate they are anything but organic mechanical beings as rule, so who knows?
Subject: Re: Extraordinary scene shows chimps grieving
From: Of Legend Born posted Tue, Nov 3 2009, 11:06am 
evidence of strictly mechanical responses is sorely lacking,


I didn't say it was a completely unemotional response. Many animals gather daily to fences (see cows, horses and dogs do it all the time) to watch what's going on. It's usually hunger and/or excitement that drives it I'd say. If I were to wheel a dead horse past several standing at the fence and watching, someone could easily think, "Oh, the poor horses are saying goodbye to their friend," when, in fact, they're only there hoping for an apple, or attracted to all the commotion.

Chimps are very curious creatures. It's natural for them to gather and watch what's going on. Some might have been sad, but a lot might have just been excited something was going on, or were there just hoping for a handout. But someone snaps a photo of it from the right angle and suddenly it's a story about chimps wearing sackcloth and wailing in agony.
Subject: Another extraordinary scene showing chimp grieving
From: Stu posted Tue, Nov 3 2009, 11:53am 
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