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Subject: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Sun, Oct 11 2009, 3:16pm 
"Discoveries like the ancient Greek Antikythera computer (1500 years before the invention of precision geared devices) the Baghdad batteries (2000 years before Volta "invented" the battery) or dental and brain surgery artifacts found in ancient Pakistan (8000 years out of historical sequence) appear "anomalous" within our current paradigm of history. However, they are not unexpected according to the ancient cyclical view."
...
" For the most part, modern history theory teaches us that consciousness or history moves in a linear pattern from primitive to modern with few exceptions. Some of its tenets include:

--Mankind evolved out of Africa,
--People were hunter-gatherers until about 5000 years ago,
--Tribes first banded together for protection from other warring parties,
--Written communication must precede any large engineered structures or populous civilizations.

The problem with this widely accepted paradigm is that it is not consistent with the evolving interpretation of recently discovered ancient cultures and anomalous artifacts."
...


Reality Sandwich | History and Celestial Time


The next golden Age seems to be very far away, looking at what the ancient cultures tell us and just by taking a look at what is going on in the world, but at least we are on an ascending path, according to this article, and I tend to mostly agree with it.

I wonder what other devices similar or more amazing than the Antikythera mechanism may still be out there to be found and how many are already lost (destroyed, damaged beyond recognition).
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: RogueReptiles posted Sun, Oct 11 2009, 3:35pm 
I heard it said once that mankind has lost more than 90 percent of our knowledge throughout time. From the burning of the Library of Alexandria to the book burnings of WWII, there is no telling what WE (as a race) knew, that we are having to re-discover now. It's really sad.

There really is no telling what will be discovered. There are underwater pyramids off the coast of Japan, that would not have been above water after about 10,000 BC. Back in the 1800's a farmer uncovered roman coins in a field in south Georgia. People assumed he put them there as a prank. I don't know anyone, who carries around 2,000 year old coins just to pull pranks on people.

Some people just write them off, because popular history doesn't readily explain incongruities.

Condemnation without investigation dooms one to everlasting ignorance.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Sun, Oct 11 2009, 6:14pm 
I have no problem believing the 90 percent assertion. If anything I would guess it to be an even higher number.

I am aware of these underwater structures off Japan, though I haven't seen any pyramid shape yet I think. However, they seem clearly artificial to me. There are also underwater "roads" off Malta, that would have been above water level about 10'000 years ago.

I like that quote in blue there. Do you know who said that, or is that from you?
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: RogueReptiles posted Sun, Oct 11 2009, 10:48pm 
Hayden Panettiere (The cheerleader from Heroes) said it in an interview. I really liked it.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Jesse R posted Sun, Oct 11 2009, 8:45pm 
Earths forbidden secrets

If the link doesn't work I can email you a copy.

Also have a look (if you haven't already) at 'Fingerprints of the gods'


Graham Hancock - Fingerprints of the Gods.pdf (download torrent) - TPB
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Mon, Oct 12 2009, 2:32pm 
Thanks Jesse

I now have "Fingerprints of the Gods" and took a little peek. I saw the Piri Reis map and other things I am familiar with, but I am quite sure it will be an interesting read.

And thank you for the offer to send me "Earths Forbidden Secrets". I might get back to you on that.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Southlander posted Mon, Oct 12 2009, 2:14am 
Well on a coast to coast am show a while back the guest was talking about 2012 and said he believed that civilization has risen to great heights and then been destroyed by natural disaster several times and that humanity is actually a lot older than is believed. And went on to say the scope of the disasters was such that nothing remained to ever be found by the new rise of civilization.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Mon, Oct 12 2009, 10:40am 
Have you ever seen the images in an ancient Egyptian temple that look very much like modern tanks and helicopters? Makes you think...
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Irishtheruler posted Mon, Oct 12 2009, 6:51pm 
Consider the source though. Has anything valid materialized from coast to coast? Maybe I'm wrong......

-Irish
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Southlander posted Mon, Oct 12 2009, 11:29pm 
I don't know about valid, but they at least every once in a while have something that will make one think and consider possibilities, however remote, that wouldn't otherwise be considered. So, in that respect at least they have some value.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Rangoon posted Tue, Oct 13 2009, 9:42am 
Where as the Antikythera mechanism is interesting it is hardly a real engineering marvel. It's function was as a cyclical machine more like a clockwork device than a computer as we think of the term.

There are even more complex devices from the roman era slightly later in linear time. I do support the idea that our ancestors had the same brain and power of reasoning as we do today. What helps most inventors and engineers is information exchange to build on discoveries of others. I completely agree that information gets lost and sometimes can be rediscovered. The loss of the Library of Alexandria may have set us back a thousand years in technology.

goon-thinking now discoveries are propelled at the speed of the internet
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Tue, Oct 13 2009, 10:42am 
"Where as the Antikythera mechanism is interesting it is hardly a real engineering marvel."


I disagree. Even though I base my disagreement on what other people say about it, I think the people who have looked at it and came to the following conclusions are credible enough:

"Professor Michael Edmunds of Cardiff University who led the most recent study of the mechanism said: "This device is just extraordinary, the only thing of its kind. The design is beautiful, the astronomy is exactly right. The way the mechanics are designed just makes your jaw drop. Whoever has done this has done it extremely carefully...in terms of historic and scarcity value, I have to regard this mechanism as being more valuable than the Mona Lisa."[5][6]"

"The device is remarkable for the level of miniaturization and for the complexity of its parts, which is comparable to that of 18th century clocks."

"The calendar dial can be moved to compensate for the effect of the extra quarter day in the solar year (there are 365.2422 days per year) by turning the scale backwards one day every four years. Note that the Julian calendar, the first calendar of the region to contain leap years, was not introduced until about 46 BC, up to a century after the device was said to have been built."

Also, the device is not complete, many gears are missing. We may never know just how good it really was. But we do know that it is 1000-2000 years ahead of it's time according to conventional history.

But that is not as astounding as the Piri Reis map and other maps of similar accuracy that seem to be based on much older maps and show parts of the earth accurately how they were many thousands of years ago and using methods of projection that according to conventional history were not invented until a couple of hundred years ago.

Aelfwine - An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded. ;)
Subject: Steve Dutch's comment on the map of Admiral Piri Reis
From: Rangoon posted Tue, Oct 13 2009, 12:24pm 
The Piri Reis Map

goon- "Idleness leads to Heresy"
Subject: Re: Steve Dutch's comment on the map of Admiral Piri Reis
From: Aelfwine posted Tue, Oct 13 2009, 1:30pm 
Well, I started to read a little in the link, but I have no way of knowing who tells the truth short of becoming an expert on projections and maps in general.

In the book Jesse recommends, "Fingerprints of the Gods", a letter is displayed:


8 RECONNAISSANCE TECHNICAL SQUADRON (SAC)
UNITED STATES AIRFORCE
Westover Airforce Base
Massachusetts

6 July 1960

SUBJECT: Admiral Piri Reis World Map
To: Professor Charles H. Hapgood,
Keene College,
Keene, New Hampshire.

Dear Professor Hapgood,

Your request for evaluation of certain unusual features of the Piri Reis World Map of 1513 by this organization has been reviewed.
The claim that the lower part of the map portrays the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Land Antarctica, and the Palmer Peninsula, is reasonable. We find this is the most logical and in all probability the correct interpretation of the map.
The geographical detail shown in the lower part of the map agrees very remarkably with the results of the seismic profile made across the top of the ice-cap by the Swedish-British Antarctic Expedition of 1949.
This indicates the coastline had been mapped before it was covered by the ice-cap. The ice-cap in this region is now about a mile thick.
We have no idea how the data on this map can be reconciled with the supposed state of geographical knowledge in 1513.

HAROLD Z. OHLMEYER
Lt Colonel, USAF
Commander

---

Aelfwine - "Thought begets Heresy ; Heresy begets retribution."
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: G Man posted Wed, Oct 14 2009, 9:43am 
The "computer" is very impressive, but the ancient Greeks were well versed in mathematics and had the intellectual background to pull something like this off. I don't think our brains are any more advanced than the ancient Greeks or any other people's.

The Baghdad battery is an ingenious invention, but is about as simple as it gets.

Is it really that big a deal for people with our level of intelligence to attempt dental procedures and what real evidence is there that actual brain surgery was performed - SUCCESSFULLY? This doesn't impress me at all.

I don't think any of this says anything about the current accepted views of time. I love mystery and the unknown as much as anybody, but some people let this "love" get the best of them.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Wed, Oct 14 2009, 10:52am 
Why do you think all these cultures across the globe speak of Golden Ages in the distant past. Do you think it's some kind of mental or "cultural" disorder that afflicts them all? Like a wishful thinking that is programmed into our genes, or something like that?

I think I have seen experts show the skull of someone who had been operated on, brain sugery. They knew the patient had survived because the tissue had regenerated. But I don't remember whether this was from a skull found in what is today Pakistan or somewhere else. Could also have been ancient Egypt.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: G Man posted Wed, Oct 14 2009, 12:54pm 
The only "golden age" legend I've ever heard of is Atlantis, and there are a lot of legends out there, some of which could be from the same source. To me that's pretty meaningless. What makes you think they are anything more than legend? We've yet to find Atlantis.

Even back in those days, I'm sure it could be possible to cut somebody's skull open and they would survive it, but drawing the conclusion that it was brain surgery is fantasy. The human race does all kinds of odd ritualistic practices. That's a lot more plausible than brain surgery.

Sorry. I can't buy into anything like this without a LOT more or at least some evidence. I'm sure in the past, that pockets of people may have developed lost technologies, but there is no evidence it's anything more than that. I think people constantly understimate the resourcefulness and intelligence of ancient people that sometimes had limitless resources as their demand.
Subject: Re: History and Celestial Time
From: Aelfwine posted Wed, Oct 14 2009, 1:41pm 
The article I posted talks about these Golden Ages and the cultures that believed in them:

"Giorgio de Santillana, the former professor of the history of science at MIT, tells us that most ancient cultures believed consciousness and history were not linear but cyclical, meaning they would rise and fall over long periods of times. In his landmark work, Hamlet's Mill, Giorgio and co-author Hertha von Dechend showed that the myth and folklore of over 30 ancient cultures around the world spoke of a vast cycle of time with alternating Dark and Golden Ages that move with the precession of the equinox. Plato called this the Great Year."

Ancient Greece, ancient India, several tribes and cultures in the Americas, etc.


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