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Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: hroth posted Fri, Nov 6 2009, 4:55pm 
Days of revelation could be as simple as 'On day one, God showed Moses this much of creation.'

Morning and evening implies 24 hr days, as does the word 'yom.' But yom without the definite article often means a general period of time, like the 'days of the prophets.'

Since the Bible isn't clear, I see no need or benefit to being dogmatic. Or catmatic.
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Fri, Nov 6 2009, 5:17pm 
Crockomatic. Automatic (¿?).
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: N. Mihalos posted Fri, Nov 6 2009, 6:40pm 
Curt, it's like this. If whoever wrote Genesis knew what we know today in the way of science and evolution, it would have been written way way differently.

However, some things that transpired in Genesis could not have been known by the author without divine insight... Four things that separate the Judeo-Christian Creation Myth above the rest.

But first consider an Atheist from two thouand years ago. No way could he known Man at one time was walking around naked and without shame and not know he was naked to begin with. And, could not have known Man at one time did not know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, high level of reasoning, etc., etc.. Or that there was a time Man didn't know what death was.

Because, an Atheist from two thousand years ago could not have known Man at one time was an animal.

And the Author of Genesis also made it plain and clear that there was a time women gave birth without labor pains, or not as bad as the ones now.

Of course today's Atheists through the study of evolution know Man at one time was a naked hominid without the ability to reason on the same level as we modern humans do. Also that hominid did not know someday he would die or that his descendant would give birth in great labor pains. Or have the same moral values (good and evil) as modern humans do.

Atheists today I'm sure acknowledge Mankind at one time was without shame, morals, naked and not knowing death or the pain of labor, and that's not just childbirth labor, there was also a time Man did not work and toil the soil kind of labor.

Though all this was written before the study of evolution and was in plain sight before Darwin opened our eyes further, many want nothing to with it because it was God's doing, which they want nothing to do with.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: hroth posted Fri, Nov 6 2009, 7:51pm 
I don't see how that has much to do with my post. That said, I agree with much of what you say.

I'm not sure it would have been written differently, though. When Jesus cures a blind man, we're not given details about restoring nerve function or circulation - although that must have happened. It's not what's important
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: N. Mihalos posted Fri, Nov 6 2009, 9:02pm 
The six day creation could not have happened the way it is written and I can't come up with an interpretation for the events other than the evolution of Man.

There probably was more than one author for Genesis as stated by Biblical scholars and I wouldn't be surprised if creation stories from other religions were spliced in Genesis, and not just in/with the Creatiom Story but also stories like the Tower of Babel as well.

And don't forget much that could have went in the Bible did not like the story of Lilith. So not only do we not have the whole story, we don't even have the whole fictional story! The Bible is not whole...

And that's my problem with YECs, they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole! So they must be on drugs!
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: hroth posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 8:14am 
I disagree with most of that, and note that you continue to ignore the days of revelation idea. I'm not overly impressed with it myself, but it's an option.

If you buy into the JEPD theory of multiple authors, you have to conclude that editors spliced together phrases as short as 2 or three words. That way lies madness and despair...

Lilith is legend, I think. But I guess that legit for you, because you view the rest as legend, too, more or less. To me, that's like complaining that the story of Artaban, the fourth wise man, isn't in the NT. Sure, it's fiction written in 1896, but it's all more or less fiction, right?

Do you think the authors and/or editors were guided by the Holy Spirit?
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 6:10pm 
Do you think the authors and/or editors were guided by the Holy Spirit?

Of what, the book of Genesis?
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: hroth posted Sat, Nov 7 2009, 9:00pm 
Sure - or the other books of the Pentateuch, since tha's what we're discussing...

Stupid missing 't' key...
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: N. Mihalos posted Sun, Nov 8 2009, 3:18am 
Well, I hate to dance around the question but I'm just not sure. When someone knows there was a time women gave birth without the labor pains that can only be divine inspiration, but to then say Man was created out of dust, well, that's just not so.

Plus what we're reading in the Creation Story I'm convinced is not the original version.

Are YECs inspired by the Holy Spirit to distort facts to suit their agenda? They seem to think so. I don't.
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: schloaty posted Tue, Nov 10 2009, 12:21pm 
Hold the phone!

Whoever said there was a time when women gave birth with no labor pains?

If ever there is a time when there can be no labor pain it's NOW!

Epidurals are a WONDERFUL thing....just ask the wife!
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Tue, Nov 10 2009, 1:59pm 
Yes. Why in heck says Nick such a thing?.
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: schloaty posted Mon, Nov 9 2009, 12:32pm 
This is nicely put, but for me, proves nothing.

Interesting, sure, but not proof.

You say an Atheist could not have KNOWN. Sure, not known. But it's not hard to imagine.

It also makes a great way to build a story about how "modern" man is special.

That aside, the way you are seeing in science what the ancients write in their texts is, to me, like seeing fullfillment of profecy. It's put so generally in the Bible, it's easy to ascribe more detail to it as we see fit.
Subject: Re: "Fountains of the Deep" link for minstrel...
From: Datu Puti posted Wed, Nov 11 2009, 12:48am 
this is actually the interpretation that makes most sense to me right now, out of a pool of interesting possibilities - life was simpler when i was YEC but suspension of disbelief could only last so long. the occurrence of light and darkness on day one and the Sun not appearing until day 4 always bugged me, but if the revelation was limited to a view from Earth, and day 4 was when cloud cover first broke, then that almost makes sense. birds appearing before land animals still makes no sense whatsoever though. if 'land animals' only referred to mammals, i still couldn't see how dinosaurs escaped a mention. hence, there's plenty of room for other explanations, and i can live with not having all the answers for now.
-dan


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