Cryptozoology forums > General Cryptozoology > News talk > view thread
Subject: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: McHaggis posted Thu, Jul 26 2007, 8:07pm 
In case some of you missed it amongst all the posts, the witness to this sighting has joined the forum, after me telling him of all the interest on here.

Here is a copy of his post


Link


Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast - interesting, good pics
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted 26 July 2007 19:20:44
Did not know where the best place to join in would be but here is as good a place as any, I am the Falconer responsible for the photos, and can tell you a bovine of any sort is not even a cosideration, I hve farmed myself, and was born and brought up within a mile or so of where the photo was taken and the creature (for want of a better word for it ) was less than 50 yards away at one time.
I know cows, and especially the small dark local variety and it was not one, also definatley not a pig of any sort. the photos do not do justice to what I saw as we watched it for several minutes over about 1/4 of a mile and the movemntwas definatley feline not canine, ears which do not show on the photos were short and round, face was not elongated like a dog, and a canine of any sort moving slowly the way it was takes more interest in its surroundings than this did. I cannot give you a definative what it is, but I can be fairly certain about what it is not.
Please feel frree to chuck any questions at me as the more sensible options explored on this the better
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Nora Jones posted Thu, Jul 26 2007, 8:58pm 
well since you took out pig, hog and boar of sorts all I can say is canid

I do not get an ominus feeling behind the pictures so most likly it is a strange mix breed of dog....... very strange but I do not feel fear behind
it

Nora
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Manc posted Thu, Jul 26 2007, 9:01pm 
Good post, I don't think the animal in question is feline, and certainly not bovine. It strikes me as being more canine than anything else, but is also bears a resemblance to a hyena possibly as well. Hopefully further sightings of this animal can be documented.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Z.Z. posted Thu, Jul 26 2007, 10:38pm 
Welcome to CZ Dartmoor Hawker, and thank you very much for coming to talk to us about this :)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Therst posted Thu, Jul 26 2007, 10:55pm 
now that's a proper way to join a forum like this!!
Welcome! welcome! welcome!!!
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: crypticTHOMinid posted Thu, Jul 26 2007, 10:57pm 
Now I think you said at one point that some people were climbing on the rocks near the animal....is it possible that this critter was a pet that belonged to them..and when they left..they took it with?..
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 1:54am 
No it was nothing to do with the group of kids climbing on the tor (rocks) behind it, it was showing a complete lack of interest in them, and they had not ( it appears noticed it)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: crypticTHOMinid posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 2:35am 
Just trying to clarify and come up with ideas...
Any thoughts of returning to that area more often now??


THOMinid - would love to have a cryptid as a pet ..
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 2:53am 
I'm already in the area 4 or 5 times a week, it's only a couple of miles from home,
and I know all the farmers and landowners in the area well
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 2:18am 
Thank you for the welcome, I am more than happy to discuss anyones views on this sighting, this is why I approached McHaggis's group in the first place.
Internet is a bad medium for discussion as it is hard to disagree with someone with out it appearing personal, so please do not think I am being rude if I disagree with anyones ideas,.
To make it easy I will state it was most definatley not a cow, pig, pony, or deer of any sort, and I have yet to see anything put forward by anyone that it was canine not feline. Unfortunatley the photos do no justice to what I saw, it's movement and attitude, or really its sieze.
Please fire up your suggestions and I will try and deal with as they come up (I did try in the last thread on this but it was to big to join in cold)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Mark57c posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 5:28am 
...so please do not think I am being rude if I disagree with anyones ideas,.


Hello and I wish you a hearty welcome as well.
First off, as I have included your quote for reference, you were there personally observing the beast, so your feelings and observations are more note worthy than any that we can make.
Secondly, and you might have answered this somewhere, so forgive me… But what type of camera were you using?
Thirdly, what was your gut feeling on this? Did you feel fear or just curiosity? Was the animal aware of you watching it could you tell? Were there any tell tale signs that the normal animals or birds of the area were absent or subdued during this sighting?
Once I apologize if I am being redundant. Thanks again for sharing!

Mark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 1:19pm 
Sorry no idea what camera it was , it was a small silver colured one for taking snaps belonging to my clients.
If I had not had a hawk and 4 clients 2 of whom were children I would of happily tried to get closer photos, but as it was we measured the other day at the closest it was 30 yards away and we had observed it for a while before it came that close.
It was aware that we were there, but you got the feeling (while trying not to put human emotions to it) we were of no importance in its scheme of things (Typical predator view of everthing as food , threat or irrelevent).
All wild life was the same as normal but there was not (never is) much about in that area at that time of day
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Mark57c posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 10:52pm 
Hello again!
First, thanks for the reply.
Those ‘little silver’ cameras are quite popular now, there are so many models and most are quite good for the purpose for which they are intended, that being casual shots of friends and family. Still, nice pictures considering the camera ‘type’. If I may suggest an upgrade in camera if the purpose would be to get a good shot of beast in question. That is if you plan to look for it in the future. But since you state that you are in the area quite a bit the odds of a second encounter may not be too bad. For good to excellent photos an upper level camera body that allows for various lens types that you can interchange would be preferable. But these can be expensive. You can see my long range rig in my ‘profile’. I was able to purchase that using part of an inheritance. (There except for money, go all of us I guess…)
Second, I appreciate your background data on those who were with you. I get the feeling that no one felt any unusual fear or ‘terror’ being that close to the beast. Also that the beast did not seem to care that your party was in the area. And the fact that there aren’t a lot of other wild animals or birds necessarily in that area at that time of day anyway. I like to track these types of metrics because I believe it may help in establishing patterns of species interaction.
Thanks again,
Mark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Bald Evil posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 5:47am 
Welcome to the board, sir! What an interesting beast you spotted! The photos suggest a canine animal... but you saw it with your own eyes, and I have no reason to think it wasn't moving like a cat. I've seen hunting dogs stalk game in a very cat-like way, but they're still unmistakably dogs. I wish I could offer a possibility that hasn't been suggested yet, but unless you were near a churchyard and it was a Grim, I got nothing.

Did you or anyone else collect any hair, scat, or see any tracks left by the animal? That could help identify it. Hope you get to see it again!
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: LadyGreenEyes posted Wed, Aug 1 2007, 5:49pm 
Welcome! The pictures are fascinating, and the animal is certainly not anything "normal". Since you know all of the people in the area, this would easily rule out some local pet, not that this thing looks like a pet, in any case. I thought, after some looking and pondering, that it most looks like a wolverine, except for the size. perhaps there is a larger type than is recognized. I saw one once (normal size) and was struck by the cat-like appearance and movement, with seemingly canine or bear-ish features as well. Beautiful animals, for certain, but not really friendly. I don't think I'd want to tangle with a relative of that size. Please, be careful when looking further. My gut tells me this beast is not the friendly sort, and we would hate to lose a new member to a subject!
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: alaskan wolf posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 12:57am 
this link was posted by cisco a while ago and the creature sort of reminds me of the dartmoor beast, it's just a thought.
Bone-crushing wolves devoured mammoths - LiveScience - MSNBC.com
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: mysticete posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 1:40am 
the bone-crushing wolves however would have pretty much just like a more strongly built wolf. While there is genetic and morphological differences between the big game specialist and our modern wolf, the morphological differences are rather slight.

I.E., it should be nearly identical in appearance to a normal wolf, which this animal is not
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: alaskan wolf posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 6:46am 
okay well thanks, it was just a thought.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Panthera posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 2:52am 
Glad you hear you have joined to discuss your sighting, Dartmoor Hawker!
May I ask what exactly was it about the animal’s movements that seemed cat-like? Did it move both legs on the right or left side at the same time, like a cat? Cats are one of only a very small number of species to naturally walk like that.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Panthera posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 2:54am 
Oops, that should be "Glad to hear".
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 3:13am 
Its movement was mush more deliberate than a dog walking at the same speed, and it was taking no interest in its suroundings the way it was going. I cannot describe the movement well but I can say I have seen alll shaoppes siezes and breeds of dogs in that encvironment from family pouches of all siezes to gundogs and hounds hunting, and none of them have at any time resembled the way this creature was walking.I cannot recall its exact pattern of leg movemnt so cannot say if it had a paralell leg movement or not
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rangoon posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 3:27am 
this is "wildthings" post from below where she makes an important point about how some dog's movements are seen as feline.

In my eyes, every pic ,except the first one, looks like a dog. The first onle looks quite frankly, like a very hairy piglet. Since there was some discrepence about the way it walks (feline), and the way it looks (canine), I thought I should look up depictions of the various stances in canine and feline gait to compare them with the pictures to see if there were any clues there. As I did, I stumbled across this.
http://www.ankc.aust.com/neamast.html It is a site describing the Neapolitan Mastiff. Pay attention to what is said about its gait in particular.

"GAIT/MOVEMENT - Forms a characteristic typical of the breed. At the walk, the movement is feline like a lion. At the trot or pacing, it is slow and resembles that of a bear. The trot is characterised by a strong thrust of the hindquarters and good reach of the forequarters. The dog rarely gallops; usual gaits are the walk and the trot. Pacing is allowed."

Here is another link, to a dog named "Fila Brasileiro", which is a cross between English Mastiff, Blood hound, Bulldog, and Rafeiros.
http://www.filadog.com/welcome.htm
It seems to have a similar gait to the Neapolitan Mastiff (due to the English Mastiff?).

"MOVEMENT
The Fila should have a long reach and elastic gait. It's smooth stride reminds you of the great cats' movement. Its main characteristic is the pace-a two-beat lateral gait in which the legs of each side move back and forth exactly as a pair, causing a rolling or rocking motion of the dog's body (called the camel's pace) accentuated all along the topline to the tail. During the walk it carries the head lower than the back region."

"During the walk it carries the head lower than the back region."

This was another thing that struck me with the pictures. Its head is held very low.

Finally, the dissimilarity to a Mastiff is its hairy body. I think that the hair on the body mostly resembles a Wolfhound or a Scottish Deerhound. However, the tail does remind me of a Newfoundland. It's my guess that this is a cross breed.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: DarkCrow posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 11:59pm 
there was some discrepence about the way it walks (feline), and the way it looks (canine)

This is one reason for my hyena theory. Hyenas resemble dogs, yet are more closely related to cats. People may ask what a hyena would be doing by itself, seeing as any are featured in packs, but the brown hyena, which I think it closely resembles, is usually solitary.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 6:16am 
Just answer Mark57c's question about the camera. Please:)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Gerry Bacon posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 9:13pm 
He did, Nick. He doesn't know what kind of camera it was. I'm kind of thinking it may not have been his.

Gerry
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:31am 
I'm thinking it may not have been mine either, it belonged to the clients
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 7:41am 
Okay. So far I've seen 6 pictures in all, is that all or are you holding on to any additional pictures?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 1:13pm 
, you have seen all I have got, and there are only 5 seperate photo'sof the beast not 6
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 4:43pm 
Let's call this photo exhibit #1

On arrow A I see what looks like a dog, can you tell me anything more?

On arrow B I see what seems to be people standing around, is that so?

And circled in the middle is what you saw. If I have missed anything in exhibit #1 please point it out to me.

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Stu posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 7:03pm 
"On arrow A I see what looks like a dog, can you tell me anything more? "

If you'd read the previous thread, you'd know that A is a bear-shaped bush.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Jesse R posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:27pm 
Forgive me for being the Devils Advocate, but has anyone thought of the possibility that McHaggis and Hawker are playing a joke on us. (Maybe just to spice up the forum / give it some action) As far as I'm concerned the reason that the animal looks like many different animals could be just that because it is. Maybe Darthmoor has an artistic resident taxidermist who has put this thing together with the intend of creating a hoax. the thing looks kind of stiff and lifeless and all the photo's show more or less the same position. The one photo that shows the face slightly tilted up, on another it looks the other way but has basically the same position. So the animal might have been physically put the other way. Or the photo could have been taken from the other side which would explain the different horizon, but then the photographer must have circumnavigated the animal. I think there is a very good change that the animal was pulled in on a trolly and has adjustable legs (like the old Barbies).
Stanger things have happened than a couple of friends having a few in the pub and coming up laughing with a practical joke.
I'm ofcourse not in a position to say this is definately so I'm just curious why this sort of explanation has not been brought forward. I guess if you make such an elaborate taxidermist forgery (like they thought the platypus was and there have been such hoaxes)you would actually take the shot from closer by.
I don't mean to offend anyone.
regards Jesse
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 7:41pm 
A is a gorse bush everything else is as you say. I did not have a dog with me that time (I frequentley do on these outings)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Stu posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 7:49pm 
Hawker, welcome to cz.com. Interesting story, thanks for your comments.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 8:57pm 
This photo will be exhibit #2

Judging by the large bush that the arrow is pointing to and where the beast is you took this photo prior to exhibit #1 from the same location, correct?

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 9:49pm 
correct
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 10:54pm 
Exhibit #3

The terrain now looks not to be as rocky anymore and this shot was NOT taken with you standing at the same place as you took the last two exhibits?

I know I'm sounding like some silly Interigator but just keep humoring me if you would.

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 11:07pm 
This was taken from a position about 20 yards away from the other, with the best about 30/40 yards further on, McHaggis can vouch for this as he has seen the continuation shots I took with a friend a few days later to show it was all one sighting
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 11:16pm 
That's fine.

Exhibit #4

How far away would you say you were from the beast in this shot?

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 11:23pm 
about 70 metres, give or take
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 11:44pm 
Exhibit #5

In this shot I'd say you were probably closer than the 70 meters, what is it about this photo that makes you say it's not K-nine?

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 12:19am 
I was about 30 yards away, and that is the photo most people are making the claims it is canine from,and if I was shown that as a stand alone with no other information I would say the same that is actualy the worst phot of all for showing its form, gives no indication of its gait, Just after that photo was taken it jumped a small gap in a wall withb a puddle to one side with a very cat like jump.
In return please tell me what in this photo says it is canine?
This is the only phot that shows it small round ears, no obvious muzzle and a more"hunched"(for want of a better word) walking gait. That could be a stalking dog , but it was not, it's walking at a lesiurley pace
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 12:34am 
Yes, in that photo it doesn't look K-9 and it's hard to make out what it is.

Exhibit #6

In this one you can say it looks like a buffalo.

Now, were there undeveloped pictures in the camera that you used before you took these photos?

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 12:41am 
Digital camera belonging to my clients with holiday snaps on
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 12:45am 
Digital camera?! Well, did those holiday snaps turn out just as blurry too?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:19am 
I have no idea, , I only took the beast photos from the memory card, I did not keep all their snaps, but all the close ups are greatly enlarged
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 2:12am 
Hawker, I took a few minutes just now and I went over almost everything you and McHaggis said so far. And someone just explained to me about how enlarging digital photos blurs them out.

I'm no animal expert or camera expert but as far as your photos and story is concerned, Sir, I view you as genuine!

You didn't give us or say anything for me to doubt you:) I'm glad you're here with us and I hope you stay!

By the way, how much do you think the beast might have weighed?

nick
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 2:37am 
On the weight I am Gustimating, my German pointe dog wighs about 45lb, so I would say it was around 100lbs or so.
Thank you for the vote of confidence
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: LadyGreenEyes posted Wed, Aug 1 2007, 5:57pm 
Wow - that's a really big animal! BTW, I believe you are completely honest as well, and this is one of the most interesting things posted here in some time.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Nora Jones posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:10am 
following his line of questioning I realized something that should have been asked first which picture is the first picture you took of this animal and about where in the whole picture shot would it have begun?
In other words what was the sequence?

Nora
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:20am 
photos in order
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:23am 
next
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:28am 
last
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:30am 
sorry it sems to hve lost 2
this is number 3 in the sequence
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:31am 
number 4
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:34am 
These are the photos in sequence as taken, I have got a set of continuation shots to brove they all link in and are actually very close to each other which I can put up if necasery but this forum has a very slow upload of only one photo at a time and do I not want to spend half my evening doing so , so please take my word on it
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Nora Jones posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:48am 
Please do not take this statement wrong Sir, But taking anyone on thier word in cryptozoology is impossible. The only reason I asked about squence was so I could see where you started to take the pictures and where the last one was taken, and to see If I could see a definate pattern in the stance of the animals legs in each pose.

How ever the the pictures are too far off for me to be able to see what I needed. Heck I can't even see the animal in a couple of them due to it being so far away... and that I need glasses.

I only have one more question on the last picture how long after the others was it taken.. minute, second? Only because in the first pictures the succession seems to be immediate or really close and because we don't know the area and were not present I'd like to see a long shot picture of how the last picture fits into the scenerary.


Thank you so much for your replies and congratulations on getting really awesome pictures.

Nora
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:02pm 
heres a sequence for you to show they are a continuous set, with about a minute or 2 between first and last, (we had been watching for a minute or so before the camera even came to mind. the sequence is taken from where the 4th and 5th shots wer taken but I am sure you are all observent enough to see it is the same place
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Nora Jones posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:30pm 
I guess my question may seem stupid but where does the shot #4 and the other ones that have no rocks where the terrain is more grassy in the back ground fit in? Cause I just dont see it in the picture above.

Thank you again for your patience.

Nora
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Nora Jones posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:47pm 
I am not trying to be difficult if you can't show me in a picture maybe you can tell me on what side of the picture shot 4 was taken in.
My mom said isn't Dartmoor where the hell hound was? I have no Idea what she is talking about.
her first response was werewolf then hell hound and giving the fact that it wasn't acting like a normal animal with people around or sniffing the territory Mom said sounded other worldly but I aint into that stuff as much as she is.

Thanks Nora
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 11:12pm 
Sorry the other photos have obviously not come through, I posted 3 others and will try again, so have some patience and bare with me
next in sequence
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 11:26pm 
I'm sorry but most of the photos (I have made seven or 8 gooes) are not coming through, as you will not take my word on it will you take the cnfirmation from McHaggis?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Nora's Mom posted Mon, Jul 30 2007, 1:11am 
The Legendary Beast of Dartmoor
Thanks, daughter, lol. The "Otherworldly Stuff" is the subject of legends and Dartmoor has it in spades! The Beast of Dartmoor, the Hell or Wist Hound of Dartmoor (The legend of the Wisht Hound is the one on which Conan Doyle based his 'Hound of the Baskervilles') - all of these tales revolve around an unknown species sighted over the centuries in the area. Pawprints and sightings are frequent - of big cats and of black hounds. Whatever the Beast is, it ranks right up there with Nessie as one of the most enduring legendary creatures of the British Isles.



Nora's Mom
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: LadyGreenEyes posted Wed, Aug 1 2007, 6:01pm 
Hi, Nora's Mom! Aren't daughters great? I have to admit, some rather otherworldly ideas did pop into my head as well, including werewolves. Very interesting animal.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Ghost of TC posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 4:10am 
Every photo has looked 100% like a dog.

Are there even any long haired big cats in the world?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Stu posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 4:41am 
No.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Ghost of TC posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 4:45am 
I didn't think so, but figured I'd ask. I'd say, then, that there is really no other logical explanation other than a dog, regardless of how it creeped about.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Stu posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 4:46am 
Notice how I've stayed out of this almost completely?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: McHaggis posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:20pm 
Actually, that's not quite true, historically speaking....

From Messybeast.com

"Woolly cheetahs with longer, denser fur have occurred several times and were thought to be a separate species. They were shot rather than captured alive so the mutation has vanished. They had thicker bodies and stouter limbs than normal cheetahs (this may be a trick of the long hair) with dense, woolly hair especially on the tail and neck where it formed a ruff or mane. The long fur made the normal spotted cheetah pattern indistinct and it appeared pale fawn with dark, round blotches. In domestic cats, the markings of longhairs are less distinct than those of shorthairs due to the blurring effect of longer fur. In domestic cats, long hair is due to a recessive gene,"



Is it out of the question that in a limited gene pool that would exist in the UK, some big cats may exist with longer fur, due to a recessive gene and inbreeding?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Panthera posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 6:18am 
Good point. I can’t see a resemblance to any known species of big cat in any of the pictures (including unusual hybrids). The anatomy and fur just don’t appear feline to me. The tail seems like it would be short for a cat, but not unusual for a dog. If it is feline it would probably have to be a different species than the “black panthers” seen in the area, since it doesn’t seem to match the more slender animals usually described in the sightings. How many unknown species of cats can the place hold?
A friend of mine has suggested a black, un-docked Bouvier des Flandres dog
, which might be as good a bet as any other kind of dog, including a Newfoundland.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 11:22pm 
, I have said else where the tail was ground length and curved, it does not show on the photo, I agree th e anatomy is not perfect for a feline, but that does not make it canine, I have not claimed that I am 100% certain it is a cat, but am certain it is no dog
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Panthera posted Mon, Jul 30 2007, 2:10am 
Oh, I didn’t see that part of the description. In the only photo where I can make out a tail it appears, to me, more similar in length to the tail of the Bouvier dog my friend found than a cat with their usually proportionally longer tails. Perhaps a Bouvier mix could come even closer in appearance to the creature.
Until we have gathered better evidence or captured the animal I don’t know how we can be 100% certain that it is or isn’t anything.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: interleaf2 posted Fri, Aug 3 2007, 2:24am 
Hi

I don't think this is feline, canine, a bear or a wild boar, so what is it? Maybe a mustelid

The description you made and some of the photos look a lot like a wolverine (gulo gulo).

Please can you take a look at Richard Attenborough's video on YouTube and comment on whether this is a plausible answer. The link is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdTX0IWTQb4

Thanks

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Aug 3 2007, 11:49pm 
This was one of the things we discussed after seeing it, ears are right ( funily enough no one ever payed any atention to my ear coments)and the light marking across the head fits, but it was to big as far as I can work out
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: interleaf2 posted Sun, Aug 5 2007, 3:48am 
The typical size of an adult male wolverine is about 3 feet long plus a tail of 10 inches. Weight around 55 lbs. The size of a medium-sized dog. They usually live in very cold climates, but then Dartmoor can be very bleak and cold in the winter. If your estimate of 100 lbs is correct then this is probably too large for a wolverine unless it had just eaten a HUGE meal!

But there is such a close fit with your description and with a couple of your photos that I wonder if it could be a particularly large and strong specimen. It would certainly be a strong predator of sheep or even ponies, and very unafraid of man. The unusual cat/bear like motion is captured in the YouTube videos and only you can judge whether this resembles what you saw. What did you make of the videos?

They are often described as clumsy hunters, but they can move fast and are extemely powerful for their size. The claws are semi-retractible and very long and sharp and the jaws and teeth can cut through frozen meat and bone. They can often win fights against wolves and bears.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: McHaggis posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:09pm 
I can confirm that D.H. sent me 11 photos, which if printed and joined together would create a large panoramic view of the area. This confirms that the pictures of the animal were taken within a few minutes of each othe.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: McHaggis posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:10pm 
I can confirm that D.H. sent me 11 photos, which if printed and joined together would create a large panoramic view of the area. This confirms that the pictures of the animal were taken within a few minutes of each other
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Hopo_UK posted Tue, Jul 31 2007, 2:03am 
I live within 20 miles of the Tor, and been there several times over the past few years. The terrain is like that photo and more. You look in different directions, and the terrain is similar, but with varying differences.

Hound Tor is a popular local attraction as there is a Car Park near it's base.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: LadyGreenEyes posted Wed, Aug 1 2007, 5:53pm 
LOL
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Panthera posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 7:05am 
Interesting. Have you observed the behavior of feral cats or dogs? Perhaps the behavior of a feral dog familiar with the area would be a bit different than the average dog moving about for the first time.
I haven’t had much experience with observing wild cat or dog behavior, but I find the description of the animal not appearing to be interested in its surroundings a bit unusual. Both cats and dogs have a good sense of smell and vision, and I would think they would tend to be alert to things happening around them, such as the presence of humans.
Maybe the animal’s indifference to human activity is due to it being used to humans. Although it could be a habituated wild animal, I think that might support the dog hypothesis.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 1:31pm 
I have seen feral dogs, and these tend to be very wary of people, this was not it was indifferent. It was not hunting, it was moving from one area to another in a very leisurly way. It had seen us and thye group on the rock, but was not bothetrecd by either
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: DarkCrow posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 11:47pm 
The fact that it was somewhat not wary of others does suggest a feline. The problem with this sighting is that the creature looks almost totally different in each picture. Some pictures conjure up the image of a canine, others of a bovine, and others of a creature out of a fantasy game. I think the best conclusion is either feline or hyena. I've already explained in the other thread how a hyena would end up in Dartmoor. I don't suppose any of you have read Sherlock Holmes stories as I have. Anyway, I highly doubt that a defenite conclusion can be reached here by just debating the pictures and the sighting descriptions, so Dartmoor Hawker, please, please look carefully at your surrounding in case the creature appears once more.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Panthera posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 12:39am 
The shape of the ears and color don’t seem a good match to any known hyena species.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:30am 
Sherlock holme hey?
the beast was seen at the foot of Houndtor, part of his insperation for Hound of the Baskervilles,
read into that what you will
(sorry coukld not resiste)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: DarkCrow posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 6:15am 
So its seems there is another fan of Sherlock Holmes other than I. Anyway, this is a tricky case. Not only could this creature be an actual cryptid, but it could simply be a known animal that has a drastic mutation. A cat, dog, hyena, or other creature with a slight mutation might lead to the beast you have seen.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Wildthings posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 2:02am 
Hi Dartmoor Hawker. Thank you for the interesting post.
I noticed in pic 6, in the topic "Dartmoor Beast - interesting, good pics", that the shoulder blade region was fairly pronounced. As cats have a noticable movement of them during their walk, more so then canines, did you happen to notice any of that here? I wish I would have a video of the claimed 'feline' walk of the Neapolitan mastiff so you could compare it with what you have seen.
Nice seeing you joining CZ. :)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:28am 
I have seen neapoliten mastiffs walking, the beast had a genuine feline walk but I cannot describe it properly It is unfortunate but it would be easy after a month to try and claim a definite catogry for it, but I am still baffled after a month or so, and have not seen any argument that makes me doubt what I saw was feline
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rangoon posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 3:23am 
Please feel frree to chuck any questions at me as the more sensible options explored on this the better

Some routine questions,nothing personal.

1)What is the state of your health?

2)When was your last eye exam?

3)Do you wear corrective eye wear?

I would assume Mcchaggis or one of his comrades may have screened this but we also have a group of youngins here who are learning the ropes so to speak and need to know that these questions are not only relative but important.

You may say that the pictures fail to do justice,but realistically eye witness testimony is normally what's flawed and the pictures tend to be what's concrete.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rangoon posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 3:28am 
Sorry that was @ dartmouth hawker...
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rangoon posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 3:29am 
ahem "dartmoor hawker"
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Cherokee posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 4:47am 
Welcome Mr.Dartmoor, and thanks for bringing something exciting to the table.

You are in this area 4-5 times a week and have never seen anything like this before? wow.

Did you have your hawks with you that day, and did they show any signs of fear, or nervousness?

I'm wondering if you, or someone else can take measurements of the area were the animal was? I mean for reference. Like the animal next to the rocks, to see about how big it was.

And lastly...were you afraid? Did you feel fear from this animal, even though it was that far away.

Sorry for all the questions, just very curious. And again, welcome.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Slowdown posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 5:27am 
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the intriguing photos.
What do you think it was?
What would you estimate its' weight as?
What one feature or mannerism stood out the most?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 1:50pm 
Hello Hawker!. Welcome to the madhouse...

Guess you're the most qualified to venture an opinion here. What's your take on it, again?. I delude myself into thinking it is canine, but...the stances ain't right...if you connect them in your mind (or should I say, more accurately, "if I connect them on my mind") it moves like a feline, allright.

A canid with a touch of the feline?. (¿?).
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: de_hart posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 12:32am 
Obviously a paranormal composite-creature straight off a coat of arms wouldn't you say? If it had wings it'd be a gryphon! Myself, I think some people are too easily entertained.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:23am 
I would go feline but with canine like bulk
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:47am 
The thing is, it looks very much canine - in some pics. But with a hint of feline, and that's on a static pic. So if you say feline, OK, that's it. But what feline, then?. What's happening in the UK, really?. Many years with cat sightings, pics, pawprints...but no animal captured (to my knowledge, of course).

A bit like BF, right?.

And them pics have something I can't grab...you know the old superstition that pics "capture" the soul of the picted?. Perhaps they have done just that in this case...

Next time I'll start babling about Fairies...
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Mark57c posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 8:17am 
What's happening in the UK, really?. Many years with cat sightings, pics, pawprints...but no animal captured (to my knowledge, of course).

A bit like BF, right?.



Ahhhh Rainbow, be careful what you say! The paranormals amongst us are pulling you in! :o)

Mark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: substance_d posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 8:45am 
In terms of not catching UK big cats, I know a lot of people in the region where I live (Herefordshire/Shropshire/Worcestershire) that have seen big cats or have them on their land, and don't report them because sightings are relatively common-place. Because of this, and importantly, they have no interest in catching them because they feel that they do no harm (except for eating the odd lamb) and shouldn't be disturbed. I also have family near Dartmoor that have seen big cats and feel that same way. On top of that, black panthers, for example, have huge territories (at least compared to relatively small size of the UK!) and they think that a lot of sightings might be the same cat/family popping up all over the place... so there might not be that many to catch!

Anyway, just searching for big, strange-looking dogs online and came across this photo. I don't know much about breeding dogs so I can't really decipher the page, but it actually looks quite similar, especially with the huge, bear-looking head, heavy upper body, and very small ears. It's a low percentage black wolf, apparently, but I don't know what it's bred with. It was on www.youngwolf.com.

And I'm not dismissing that it might have been a big cat. They are definitely around in the UK... but this dog looks very similar to the photos. Just found this and thought it might help :)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Rainbow Medicine Man posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 10:40pm 
It may be as you say, substance, but you must agree that it's a lot more interesting if them cats are popping in and out of the continuum...

One can dream, what?.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: plym89 posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 7:18am 
I dont think falcons would be that nervous.. unless the thing actually threatened them in some way which it didnt..
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:16am 
I had a hawk with me, it was not intetrested, but in hawk terms why should it be, it was not threatening or bothering it in any way, was to big to eat so neatly classified as irrelevent at that time.
I have seen what was definatley a collie siezed black cat at the top end of the valley about 10 years a go, this was not it. we went back and took comparrison shots with myself and a german shorthaired pointer dog for comparison, the dog is 25 inches at the shoulder, the beast appeared slightly taller, and dwafed him in bulk.
If I had been on my own (or just with the hawk ) I would have gone closer, there was no threat from it, and at the closest we were only about 30 yarrds away (measured on Friday)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Cherokee posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 9:08am 
Thank you kind sir. =)
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 3:22am 
Health is great, I think you could possibly describe my job as outdoors and active, eyes have not been tested for 5 years, no corrective eye where, and if pictures are so definitive and eye witness flawed how come no one has identified in it.
In a job like mine you tend to have to believe your eyes as I'm working with fast moving birds and mistakes can be dangerous to the hawks, and after all if I can't believe my eyes who cant, so I am quite happy to stick to my statement that I genuinley do not believe it was canine, and I am sceptical enough that if I thought there was any doubt in my mind I would not have gone public with the photos
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Mark57c posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 8:28am 
Dartmoor,
I don't think that anyone here is questioning your story, but we do tend to probe for answers, and not always in a polite fashion either. For that I apologize for the group as a whole if any of us seem rude. I wish that more folks were as confident about their eyesight as you are. I love it when people say: “I saw what I saw and that’s it!” Usually it’s the other way around, people question what they saw with their own two eyes! Mores the pity…
Mark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 1:17pm 
I dont think any one has been rude, and if they have no offense has been taken, I think the more discussion the better, and the more avenues explored the better into coming up with an anwser to what I saw
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Mark57c posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 6:46pm 
Good! I am glad you feel that way. Maybe I am to sensitive when I read the abrupt way some of us asked you questions.
Anyway, do you carry binoculars or a monocular when you go a field? Of course, I don’t know what kind of gear a falconer carries normally so one more item may be out of the question. Plus isn’t the falcon perched on your arm when it isn’t flying? (Showing my ignorance of the activity here!)
Once again, thanks for the info and good luck on spotting your mystery creature again!

Mark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 7:43pm 
I had binoculars in my bag, but as is so frequent on these occaisions completely for got abot them.The hawk I was using on this occaision and on outings like this he is fairly free range coming and going (short distances ) as he pleaases
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Mark57c posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 8:12pm 
Hehehe... Yep, I have forgotten to use what I have packed in key moments over the years too!
Me and the Mrs. would love to go on a bird adventure if we ever get over there! I hope to get to the British isles someday (My roots). And my wife would like to see Italy, (her roots). I hope we can pull both off within a couple of years. The countryside looks beautiful to me in those photos of the mystery creature.
Mark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Gerry Bacon posted Fri, Jul 27 2007, 9:07pm 
I did notice him and should have welcomed him. I'll do so now. Sorry for the oversight.

Gerry
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: kensei posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 5:06am 
Great Pyrenees is waht it looks like to me. i've been around these dogs and the can get pretty big

Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Onza posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 8:47am 
I agree that it was a large dog. So I udnerstand that it allegedly had a catlike gait, but I don't really understand what the mystery is.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: enigma posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 11:55am 
its clearly a basking shark
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Onza posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 12:00pm 
Oh, duh. My bad.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Thylacine Lover posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 6:07am 
I know that this may be a bit of a stretch, but when I looked at the photos of the dog (that is what I believe the "beast" to be) I was struck by the obvious to me that this may be a "blue" Irish Wolfhound. Granted this animal does have very long haird when compared to the hound but it seems very fitting indeed. Please have a look at the photos I am posting and compare them to your memory of the event. Maybe it will strike something in you. I am also including two links to websites that are about wolfhounds.
I like how others here compared the dog to the New Foundland. Great dogs. I had one many years ago. The size may be correct when compared to your pics but the hair does not seem as wirey.
Here you go mate,

Irish Wolfhound Information and Pictures, Irish Wolfhounds


Irish Wolfhound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cheers
Luvvy
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sat, Jul 28 2007, 9:58pm 
The coat is wrong for either an Irish wolf hound ( I used to have one) and was not as long as a newefoundland, it was thick more like a fox rather than long as most of the suggested dogs have been
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Wee Mad Arthur posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:36am 
From the posted images, which are great I might add, I see nothing that does not convince me that this is not a large canid of some sort. Hawker, you say that it moved like a feline, and I'll not doubt you. A few key issues though lie in the morphology exhibited in the pics. The short stocky frame is unlike the elongate trunk of a big cat. The tail is also incorrect for any known feline. Other than a canine, the closest I could come to another family is an Ursine (bear), or some type of Hyena. I think that most of the non canid charateristics are coming from the heavy coat of the animal. For now, I'm voting some sort of large dog, or canid crossbreed. At this point I think we simply need more evidence, pics or preferably a video. If you are not sqeamish you could always shoot or trap it. It certainly is an interesting looking creature in any case even if it is a common dog.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: gravrok posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 1:50am 
there is something increadably firmiliular about this creature and i cannot put my finger on it. aardwolf? Slothbear? Striped Hyena? i dont know but the shape is so familuar sorry i got no answers but theres some ideas
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 2:50am 
I'm not squeamish but have no desire to trap or shoot it, it is doing no one any harm, it looks as though it would taste disgusting, so live and let live as far as I am concerned, I will however keep people up to date on any more sightings.
Once I came out about haveing seen one you would be amazed at the number of other people local to the area have had sightings of cats dating way back from the 70's in the area but most people admit to staying quiet for fear of ridicle.
it is unfortunate in a way that every one is trying to find a very neat catogory for it, I have not been able to say what it is and I am the one who watched it but I have yet to see anything to convince me it was more canine than feline, the photos are not the best of reference points but unfortunatley that is the best I have, and my opinion is still it was some form of cat and I await the argument that may convince me otherwise, and please remember that Though I have had one other definite sighting of a collie siezed black cat about 10 years ago I would assume most odd things I saw had a good explanation, this does not
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Wee Mad Arthur posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 3:02am 
Thanks for the propmt reply. As for categorizing it, it is our first tool when trying to ID an abberrant animal report. It's easier to rule out the known than the unknown after all. The problem with oddball sightings like these is people's imaginations tend to run a little wild in the anlysis (see above for good examples :) ) I'll go with your assumption that it most resembled and behaved like a feline, or some sort of relative of that family and take a hard look at the possiblities. The largest gap to a feline, is that coat. It's not a common color even in domestic breeds, and the length and shaggyness of it are extremely unusual. The size of the animal would indicate that it is at least as large a puma, so smaller species would be out of the running. It might well be something new though, keep us updated.

-thanks WMA
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Pterois Volitans posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:16am 
First impression when I saw the pictures was, "Did someone lose an Irish Wolfhound cross?"
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Kody J. Boye posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 3:31pm 
All that I can say is that this is quite the fascinating find. Nobody's reported anything like this in the area before, right? I was just wondering.

I've read that it's been compared to the Derriter beast. (you all can find a picture on American Monsters .)

I ask this since it concerns the Derrider beast because some people say it looks like it, but is there any chance that this could be an ape/monkey-like creature? I highly doubt it myself, but you never know.

I hate to plug myself, but would you consider an interview for a horror/paranormal magazine that I'm starting up? My email is kodyboye@q.com if you are interested.

Thanks for answering our questions, I appreciate your find. I know it's genuine and I think you may be on to something.

Any chance on you and a few others going out there and staking the area out for a day or so? I know that 'staking out' doesn't really help in Cryptozoology, but if you could find anything--scat, fur, footprints--it'd give more proof to the claim. I can tell the pictures are not faked, but most of the time pictures aren't even enough proof to have people go and try and find the animal.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: N. Mihalos posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 7:45pm 
How long did you observe it for, Hawker?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Dartmoor Hawker posted Mon, Jul 30 2007, 1:31am 
I would have saaid origanally 5 minutes but time plays tricks at times like this and I would imagine only a couple of minutes
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Thylacine Lover posted Mon, Jul 30 2007, 6:22am 
Why is everyone's first instinct to harm something that they find out of the ordinary? Studying it should be your first thought, not killing, harming, or maming. It boggles my mind why time after time people in here say this kind of thing. I could see one killing an unknown creature if it came after you or your littles ones or animals but really what harm to most of these creatures do to anyone? Most of them are just plucking along living the life they always lead untill we intruded into their territory. Live and let live mate. Live and let live.
Luvvy
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: LadyGreenEyes posted Wed, Aug 1 2007, 6:14pm 
That's an easy question. With pictures, someone either screams fraud or labels them as something else. With simple testimony, people are called liars, or, as with the pictures, there is an assumption of something ordinary. With a body, however, for testing, exhibition, etc. there could be no doubt. Sad, I agree, but true.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: ufoncntr posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 5:26am 
Is he sure it wasn't an overgrown bear?
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Seijun posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 9:29am 
Err... A bear? With a tail like that??

IMO, this was canine. A dog. It has a typical doggy "flag" tail. And dogs can walk in a varriety of ways. Some can seem catlike, especially if they are trying to be careful, as this one probably was, seeing as it had no interest in humans.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: McHaggis posted Sun, Jul 29 2007, 8:27pm 
A bear in the UK, would be an even bigger story than a long haired big cat.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Gracie28152 posted Mon, Jul 30 2007, 7:40pm 
Not to play devil's advocate...but couldn't that be a newfoundland? I had one years ago and after playing in the fields all day he looked just like the animal in the photo...
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Seijun posted Thu, Aug 2 2007, 7:25am 
Any large, black, long-haired dog photographed at a low resolution like that is going to look identical to those photos..
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: interleaf2 posted Fri, Aug 3 2007, 2:53am 
Another wolverine video for comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnJG5kh1Drg

It moves in a way that is like a cross between a cat and a bear. Very powerful and reputed to be unafraid of anything. Round ears. Thick fur. Medium length tail. I have heard that some have been spotted in the Welsh mountains, maybe escaped from a zoo.
Subject: Re: Dartmoor Beast. The witness joins CZ.com
From: Clucor posted Fri, Aug 17 2007, 8:22pm 
Well, whatever your creature turns out to be, Welcome to CZ and thank you for making such an exciting first post! Its getting hard to find genuine sightings around here! :P


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