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Subject: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Daenerys posted Sun, May 22 2005, 12:02pm  One thing I seem to be very confused about is the therezinosaurs and segnosaurs. Therezinosaurs are related to ornithomimosaurs,right(?). And segnosaurs are closely related to therezinosaurs(?) So are segnosaurs and therezinosaurs their own group. Or segnosaurs are part of therezinosaurs or are therezinosaurs part of segnosaurs(To me, very confusing). Also would like to know if any new segnosaurs(therezinosaurs?) have been discovered(not including Falcarius), or if you can be nice, give me a whole list of segnosaurs, therezinosaurs, whatever. Or give me a very good website thats updated monthly that has alot of therezinosaur, segnosaur info. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to "expand my knowledge" on the Therezinosaurs,segnosaurs, since I really don't know to much about it. Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Lovecraft posted Sun, May 22 2005, 12:47pm  It is somewhat confusing, but both Therizinosaurus and Segnosaurus are classified in the family Therizinosauridae. The group used to be collectively known as "Segnosaurs", and I'm not sure why the genus they were named after has changed. Here are some more members of the family: Alxasaurus Beipiaosaurus Chilantaisaurus Enigmosaurus Erlikosaurus Nanshiungosaurus Nothronychus The identity of Therizinosaurs is still unresolved, some place them near the Ornithomimosaurs and other to the Oviraptors. It is fairly certain that the family is part of the Clade Maniraptora. I don't know of any websites that are updated monthly on Therizinosaurs, but here are some that I found interesting: Those freaky therizinosaurs, the old dinosauricon, and the wikipedia entry. I'll try and see if I remember any more. Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Ozraptor4 posted Mon, May 23 2005, 2:05am  >Here are some more members of the family: . . . >Chilantaisaurus To make things even more confusing - it should be added that the true (ie. type species) *Chilantaisaurus* (C.tashuikouensis) is an allosauroid carnosaur, not a therizinosaur - based on a crappy skeleton described in 1964. Over the years, additional Asian theropod scrap from a variety of unrelated animals have been assigned to (=dumped into) *Chilantaisaurus* including *"Chilantaisaurus" zheziangensis* which was based on isolated claws which are probably therizinosaurian in origin (thus C.zheziangensis is an indeterminate therizinosaur rather than a true Chilantaisaurus). This confusion led to a number of botched reconstructions in the 1980s which made Chilantaisaurus into an allosaur with whopping great therizinosaur foreclaws. er...so in short, Chilantaisaurus is not a therizinosaur. Cheers O4 Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Ozraptor4 posted Sun, May 22 2005, 11:18pm  >Therezinosaurs are related to ornithomimosaurs,right(?) Therizinosaur, not therezinosaur. No, the vast majority of recent cladistic studies have them as cousins of the Oviraptorosauria. Ornithomimosaurs aren't even maniraptors (which therizinosaurs definately are) - although admittedly they were considered as possible therizinosaur relatives back in the 90s. >And segnosaurs are closely related to therezinosaurs(?) Segnosaurs ARE therizinosaurs. Way back in 1954, Russian palaeontologist Evgenii Aleksandrovich Maleev described *Therizinosaurus cheloniformis* from a few bits and pieces discovered in 1923 (including the enormous claws) and erected the "family" Therizinosauridae to accommodate it. Incidentally, he thought it was was a turtle (!!!). Now fast forward to 1979: Mongolian palaeontologist Altangerel Perle describes *Segnosaurus galbinensis* and erects the Segnosauridae to accomodate it. Next year he pens *Erlikosaurus andrewsi* and in 1983, with comrade Rinchen Barsbold, bags *Enigmosaurus mongoliensis*, both of which are also shoved in the Segnosauridae (the dinosaurs, not the palaeontologists) - although *Enigmosaurus* intially got its own family. By the 1990s, it was becoming increasingly clear that *Therizinosaurus* and *Segnosaurus & friends* were effectively the same kind of critter - thanks mainly to the discovery of the decent skeleton of *Alxasaurus* in 1988 - and by the mid-90s, the Segnosauridae had been sunk into the Therizinosauridae. > or if you can be nice, give me a whole list of segnosaurs, therezinosaurs, whatever. Up to date complete lists of the Therizinosauria are to found at - http://personal2.stthomas.edu/jstweet/therizinosauria.htm http://www.dinod ata.net/Dd/Namelist/CLASSIF/Therizinosauroidea.htm Notethat there are a couple more possible bits of therizinosaur-material awaiting a full description. >I'm trying to "expand my knowledge" on the Therezinosaurs,segnosaurs, since I really don't know to much about it. Well...if you're after specific data, I have pdf descriptive papers for Beipiaosaurus & Falcarius plus hard copies for Eshanosaurus, Alxasaurus, Erlianosaurus & Nothronychus. Cheers O4 Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Viashino posted Mon, May 23 2005, 2:59am  Why is it that the SECOND I started reading this reply, I thought.. "... Brian?" *waves at his fellow WA Museum compatriot* V. Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Ozraptor4 posted Mon, May 23 2005, 3:44am  "... Marcus?" >*waves at his fellow WA Museum compatriot* Ack - I'm afraid John Long has seduced me over to the dark side - next month I defect to Museum Victoria, studying basal actinopterygian fishies under him and Gavin Young (ANU). I get a whole range of perks including an ARC salary, free IMAX entry, my own Darth title and a spiffy red lightsaber. In case you didn't already know, Tiki buggered off thataway last month (applied for job at Scienceworks). It will be a considerable step up in the world... I thought assembling WA Museum's Diprotodon was backbreaking, can't wait to kill myself on the Amargasaurus skeleton thats on the way to Melbourne! Plus it will be nice being within driving distance from Koonawarra, Dinosaur Cove, Strzelecki etc... Cheerz O4 Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Daenerys posted Mon, May 23 2005, 8:34pm  What does pdf papers mean? Does that mean you have them on your computer and can email them to me? Sorry, I have no understandings of these things. Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Ozraptor4 posted Mon, May 23 2005, 9:13pm  >What does pdf papers mean? Does that mean you have them on your computer and can email them to me? Sorry, I have no understandings of these things. Yes, a .pdf file is on the computer and can be read with Adobe Acrobat (available for free from numerous websites) or similar software. A hardcopy means I either have the original journal or a photocopy of it. O4 Subject: Re: Therezinosaurs or Segnosaurs? From: Daenerys posted Tue, May 24 2005, 6:19pm  I have adobe acrobat. So can you possibly email me some?

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